Its not iSoBuTaNe! A theory for cause of "Medusa"

We’ll start this off by saying I am openly admitting I claim no additional comprehension beyond those who have contributed various theories and concepts regarding the subject matter. In fact I would qualify myself as falling very short of others pertaining to their span of their understanding of this stuff.

I also thought this would be better off in its own independent discussion thread so as not to steer any other conversations in different directions that could ultimately yield the corrective actions and highlight the underlying cause of this issue.

Let’s start out by saying what I think it is and why, and then I will provide the homework/references towards the bottom of the post. The idea of this is to discuss, openly, what the potential cause is…

The theory; Isobutane PPM within the n-butane and the isobutane itself are “tainted” from production. The idea is that during COVID, when the world was shutting down, demand for energy plummeted. Plants shut down and capacity was reduced. There are several press releases highlighting this and I’ve included a release by Divergent regarding how they stated

“While revenues decreased 47% from 2019, the Company maintained gross margins of 25% (2020) vs 23% in 2019 by implementing cost control and cost reduction measures to adjust to the lower levels of activity”

(what exactly did Divergent do in regards to “cost reduction measures”). Then I did some digging, and found a paper from the EPA that talks about catalyst by product build up in NA and describes the business these refineries are in, how they operate, and even how many plants there are! The paper is from 1996, and at the time, only 15 butane isomerization plants existed! Check out this little tid-bit excerpt from the paper defining the TWO MAIN different catalysts used to isomerize butane;

As discussed in Section 3.4.1, the most prevalent catalyst used for both butane and
naphtha isomerization is platinum or platinum chloride on alumina or zeolite. When the catalyst
loses activity, it is removed from the reactor and replaced with fresh catalyst. Prior to removal,
the reactor may be swept to remove hydrocarbons from the catalyst. These preparation steps can
include one or more of the following:

• Nitrogen sweep (to remove hydrocarbon)
• Oxygen sweep (to burn hydrocarbon)
• Steam stripping (to remove hydrocarbon).

This procedure of catalyst preparation, removal, and replacement is relatively lengthy (typically
one week or more) and requires the unit, or at least the reactor, to be shut down such that no
hydrocarbon is processed during the time of catalyst replacement.

There are a handful of isomerization processes used at domestic refineries that do not use
platinum or platinum chloride catalyst. At these facilities, spent catalyst is generated in one of
the following two methods:

• A method similar to the generation of spent platinum/platinum chloride catalyst described above. Fixed-bed processes are used in both palladium and nonprecious metal catalyst applications and spent solid catalyst is infrequently removed.

• A method where catalyst is removed from the fixed-bed reactor frequently (up to
once a day) in liquid/semi-solid form, presumably with little to no disruption of
the process. This method is used only for one process which uses aluminum
chloride/hydrochloric acid catalyst.

Anyway, if you read the EPA paper entirely you can see it says when they use the alternative catalyst there is a large amount of “residual” oils from manufacturing as well… i.e. sludge?!? I will also include a little engineering case study about how “de/isobutanizer” systems can run inefficiently and foul up the process but who would notice such deviation from product output if there are no analytics for something like that? The EPA article talks about classifications of hazardous materials by the refineries themselves and obviously they want to not say its hazardous so why would they be analyzing for it… Oh, and don’t forget; they have to replace the catalyst once it loses activity. All of this leads me to believe there is a rush in the refinement process and not everything is getting refined, as well as they are using cheaper methods to manufacture to maintain profitability quota during unprecedented(?) supply/demand cycles and labor shortages?

Then it says

“A method where a catalyst is removed from the fixed-bed reactor frequently (up to once a day) in liquid/semi solid form, presumably with little to no disruption of the process… uses Aluminum chloride/hydrochloric acid”

… maybe due to labor shortage, it gets changed out less?

Check out the paper “New Metal Halide Catalysts for Hydrocarbon Reactions” … it mentions how;

hydrocarbons react among themselves when aluminum chloride is present. It goes on to say “These halides all have similar chemical nature and show similar behavior towards water and in the formation of double salts or addition compounds; they form the transition between the purely heteropolar salt-type halides and the typically homopolar covalent halides

When you talk about a polymorphing affect, could it be related to the aluminum chloride? I also realized that there is no other thing you can make from crude or natural gas regarding solvents that we use that requires a catalyst to isomerize. Only isobutane, and I would bet that the process changed due to supply problems as @Dr.stanky mentioned in the Hydrogen peroxide thread.

Is it possible trace PPM of isobutane within the n-butane cylinders is leaching the catalyst or result of the catalyst into the process? This makes sense why you would use activated alumna and sieve beads to mitigate the issue, just read the EPA paper as it does mention that. Very cool stuff.

In business, you want to provide a quality product, but if you’re trading in a commodity, sometimes you will cut corners to keep the price steady and sacrifice that quality, very straightforward and makes a lot of sense.

Prior to COVID, the isobutane was perfect, now it is not?, this is because they had to make measures to still output the stuff they care about, I don’t think they care much at all about butane or isobutane, they would much rather use the butane to make propane?


EPA Archived Study 1996
New Metal Halide Catalysts for Hydrocarbon Reactions - 1937
The Action of the Catalyst Aluminum Chloride-Hydrogen Chloride on Toluene at LT
How Deisobutanizer systems can run inefficiently without operator knowing
Butane Isomerization

Artcle of timeline depicting production changes and cost control measures due to COVID;

Check out this video that explains more about the refineries and the pricing markets

So what the hell am I talking about? Honestly, I have no clue and was hoping someone would call me a moron…

Also shoutout to @anon64373531 for the inspiration and @TheLostBiologist for saying it was/might be Hydrogen Peroxide which made my fingers use google and also @TRIPPIE lol its definitely not the isobutane :wink:

Is it the Aluminum Chloride in the Isobutane, leaching into the n-Butane, causing a polymorphing effect/affect?

15 Likes

Im purely speculating but i strongly dont believe it has anything to do with refineries procedures if they had means to lower production costs before the mandated “shortage” they likely wouldve been doing so already. We literally shutdown production in the most regulated country in the world and are sourcing from the most ass backwards places. Whose to say their not cutting their oil a .1% cut could quite literally be hundreds of millions in profits.

1 Like

You don’t believe they would cut quality of an acutely demanded product that literally almost no-one procures to be able to increase throughput of other products in much much higher demand? Id say thats a trade off they’re willing to make especially if there are no quality controls or mandates around this very specific thing, only we are dealing with the acidic compound of THC or CBD, no one else. We care but they don’t cause we’re a lot smaller than someone providing propane for an entire state?

3 Likes

Im saying why would they wait to do that now when they couldve been doing it for decades? they’ve monetized their waste streams decades ago, you think they were sitting on a more profitable manufacturing procedure and said naw lets make less profits? thats a stretch to say the LEAST

Edit i needed to re read yours thats my mistake i see the point you were trying to make. From my understanding most lighter chain hydrocarbons are easily distilled and recovered in crude oil distilliation but yea they can convert heavier chain hydrocarbons to lighter chains. Maybe they have some excess heavier hydrocarbons that is cheaper to process in a crackler vs buying and distilling. Basic refinery process’ dont commonly do this but it is recorded so yea i def see your view/ the possibility of that occuring with mandated shortages

1 Like

I think they would have used better catalysts prior in the name of quality considering its isobutane it needs to have a quality based factor of purity, they made a switch that didnt affect purity per se but it did affect quality… but they don’t care about quality, just the purity, as long as they can hit the number they probably sacrificed product quality standards…

i.e. “its still the same stuff but was made in a slightly different way; causing something to be in it that specifically affects THC/CBD compounds” and so no one else really cares or notices???

Quality and purity are one in another but yes one contaminant can be worse than another

2 Likes

13 Likes

I thought divergent made submersible pumps and fluid transportation systems. Are they in the refining business?

Lol love the tiltle, great thread.

3 Likes

It could be that it wasn’t a cost saving measure, but simply a “keep operating” measure. It might not be cost effective other than the fact that it keeps them running while they can not get a steady supply of their regular catalyst.

5 Likes

I totally agree and believe this makes the most amount of sense, it matches up with the timelines, it explains why there is usually a bit more residual and so on…

Probably likely the problem literally goes away the minute they go back to “business as usual” or they might stay the course and we’re the ONLY ones that will have to adapt?

1 Like

bro there are literally a dozen people on this forum discussing using isobutane in the past to grow diamonds

@Dred_pirate @diamond_alchemy I swear you both have years old posts about using isobutane.

Nevermind there’s a fairly popular mix (after 70/30) that’s a mix of butane, propane, and isobutane.

You crayon munchers need to stop it with this isobutane crap. Go buy a tank, and prove it causes medusa, cause the folks posting about using isobutane in the past have done their part, as have the crayon munchers making diamonds with canned butane (lol isobutane and benzene galore!)

2 Likes

I was having the fast crash issue with butane/propane, switched to isobutane and still had fast crash after the first tank.

Butane and Isobutane are contaminated in my honest best opinion.

15 Likes

All catalysts will poison eventually, but by ‘poison’ we mean foul, and by foul we mean that the active oxide form of the surface (dangling bond from metal is reactive) has been replaced by some other nonreactive species or ‘occluded’ (meaning shit is stuck to it and rendered it inaccessible to reaction).

When the catalyst fouls the reaction stops. There is no sense running the reaction/reactor if it is no longer generating product. So the reason they change it out is because it stops working, and they wouldn’t do it less frequently because they would be running it for no reason once the catalyst is fouled.

2 Likes

You’re the forums biggest hater. We all saw u trolling bharris. Not sure why u like to lick dreds butthole. U guys should just post some isobutane diamonds. I just made the switch from isobutane to n butane and now I have loose diamonds? @thumper medusa=isobutane?

5 Likes

You dont think propane is?

1 Like

potentially but there are zero reports of people using propane only and having fast crash issues. But there are also not many people using straight propane.

So i dont know but I feel its kind of irrelevant.

2 Likes

I mean if we could prove that’s the case then it would explain why only butane and iso butane are effected (since butane is isomerized into isobutane)

Sounds like it’s coming from the butane

2 Likes

Anyone running straight propane who can confirm or deny?

Medusa are you NH3?
It kind of looks that way to me.

Faceted then turns to dust.
No longer in our gas we trust.

Isobutane or benzene?
some suspect it’s propylene.

A water wash, and 13x
No longer does the problem vex

So what causes chalking stones?
Do we have but more unknowns?

No, I think we’ve found it now
And this picture tells me how

@Photon_noir & @Roguelab have both shown
Crystals in ammonia grown.

50 Likes