Water clear carts; help with the bigger picture

Hash and Stuff Distillation
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Hey Y’all,

First and foremost, thank you to everyone on here contributing knowledge. I have learned and continue to learn so much from y’all. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Now, i do apologize if i am posting this in the wrong section. First time posting asking for help here. Despite that this is long, hopefully its quick, easy, and straightforward to answer since i feel as though i’ve done a lot of looking at threads up to this point.

My goal is to make water clear d9 carts. My understanding is there are multiple ways to get to that end goal, and that’s where i’m a little tripped up.

I am currently running about as simple of a cls as you can run. 3" or 4" x 36" material column to a 6x24 collection column. No inline dewax, no nitrogen assist, try to keep everything as cold as possible during the process, passive recovery. This of course leaves me with a non dewaxed crude in the shatter platter. This is where my questions begin…

1). Do I need to dewax before putting said crude in the boiling flask? From my understanding, yes i do. The boiling flask will get real nasty if I don’t, and the degumming process can become a bit confusing with fats precipitating out along with gums? Do I have that correct?

2). In regards to dewaxing, assuming the answer to question 1 is yes, is mixing the crude with ethanol (1:6 -1:10 i think is what i’ve read on an sop on here), surrounding by dry ice in freezer for 2 or so days, and then filtering out the waxes, sufficient enough to get it ready for degumming and spd?

3). Is there a way to remove etoh and recover without a rotovap, while keeping the end goal in mind? I’m not extremely handy like some folks i’ve seen on here (some of y’all are fucking ridiculous. MAD respect.), so part of me answers this question by saying yeah dude just buy a rotovap. However, I’m also on a tight budget. This question right here is the bulk of the dilemma…i think.

4). Last question just to make sure I have the order of whole the process correct start to finish:

  • hydrocarbon extraction of biomass through cls
    -remove volatiles via vacuum oven (turn crude into slabs of shatter)
    -dewax/winterize in etoh/di then filter
    -rotovap
    -decarb
    -degum
    -spd (2nd pass needed for water clear or nah? starting material dependent perhaps?)

I’ve gone through so many threads at this point that i feel like i understand the details of each individual step, as well as variations to such methods, better than i understand the entirety of the process itself…except one thing on the topic of degumming. Do you have to rotovap after that since you’re using ethanol again?

Now, i know i could use the ethanol bucket extraction tek and be left with an ethanol crude that picked up few enough lipids, etc. to not have to winterize it, but that still leaves me at the fundamental issue of having to get the ethanol out of the oil. I’m thinking, the easiest, and most straightforward answer to either etoh or hydrocarbon extraction, would be to buy a rotovap, spd apparatus, and a pump appropriate for both applications. Budget is tight is the issue there, but do have a tiny bit of money for some stuff. Will of course want a Buchner funnel as well for degumming i believe? Apart from filter media, filter paper and little things like such, I think this will get me where i need to go?

The final option would be to get a chiller rated for -40, dewaxing column, and nitrogen assist, and dewax inline at -30 for a couple hours (i think that’s what i’ve read people on here are doing for inline). That takes care of both dewaxing and etoh removal cuz there is none (except maybe after degumming still?) As much as i like this option, i also know what chillers and jacketed columns cost lol

I believe i understand what my options are to reach the end goal, just really not sure which direction to go while utilizing what i already have. I think having answers to those questions above will help determine the path i take. Im of course open to any other suggestions as well! Here to learn.

I apologize again that this is a lot of text. My hope is that i’ve provided enough information, and worded questions to be answered in the most time saving manor possible for anyone willing to take the time to help. Also hope this helps anyone who has spent as much time reading as I feel like i have lol

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My brother in canna, use a conversion liter

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It seems like you pretty much got it figured out.

You definitely wanna winterize b4 spd otherwise your distillate will contain lots of waxes.

As far as solvent recovery that can be done in your spd but will take forever.

If water clear is your goal and you can play with pentane safely, maybe look into “CRC powders” another advantage to pentane is the solvent recovery step is FAST

But @qma also had solid advice there. You can probably scoop a water clear conversion liter for super cheap if that’s what u want and then u don’t have to risk blowing yourself up with pentane lol

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CLS => jar => wait.

spin: Separation Anxiety (mechanical)

decarb THCA.

higher potency and clarity than you’ll get with distillation, and less gear or work.

see: Please humor me. How are decarbed diamonds that much different from distillate?

edit: …and No need to purge crude that’s going to be winterized?

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Hey, there is definitely a science and process to get what you are looking for and it seems like you’re on the path to getting there. We make them utilizing CO2 and some post processing to get really nice terps. Maybe a route for you is to try a CO2 extraction if you’re not set up for pentane etc… just a thought, or as ky_cbd suggested purchase a liter and save the headache and expense of making your self

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OP has a small CLS, and is not clear that they want to purchase a ROTOVAP…where on earth are they going to come up with the tooling to “try a CO2 extraction”?!?

even if we imagine they have the required $100+ k machine lying around, how does extracting with CO2 get them any closer to water clear distillate?

it’s not like they could then skip any of the above steps…

Edit: technically CO2 can be done for a couple or $3k. See Open blast CO2 just not at a scale that leads to distillate

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Is degumming always necessary for water clear? Or only on certain material? Or only on material extracted above a certain temperature?

I’m not looking for a spoon, just curious. I don’t really mess with any distillation or post-processing myself, but I’ve always wondered about this.

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Thank you for the response and idea! This is certainly a path i had not considered at all. After doing a little reading, I like this idea a lot. I do have a couple questions though. How thick of a consistency do you like left in the jar before moving to centrifuge?

I’m not very familiar with centrifuges in general, but think i am getting the idea. You can buy a centrifuge and swap out the rotor with one that has bigger buckets if need be? Or just hopefully find one with buckets the size you would like? Apart from bucket size, what requirements do you find necessary on the centrifuge? Min/Max rpm, heating/cooling, etc.

I can’t imagine i will have more than 750ish mL of oil at a given time. I don’t extract more than probably 3-6 times a month at the moment. if that sometimes. I also don’t mind working in small batches to help save money for now.

Noted on not needing to do anything other than recover solvent well before winterization as well, thank you again!

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This may or may not be a dumb question, but what is a conversion liter? that’s a tough duck duck go search lol

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I mean blowing up doesn’t sound ideal, but i’m still intrigued in this process as well. I want to learn all of it. everything. Started processing in 2015 but stopped in 2016 to just focus on cultivating. I’m back to wanting to process my own again, missed a lot of information and tek in that span. Gotta catch up now lol are there any particular threads you recommend for a pentane and crc process? I’m going to do my homework on it as well. Thank you!

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Re water-clear carts: Magsil-PR is your friend.

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Start here: YOC Dirty Diamond Tek - THCa isolation from Crude

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Why do you want to make water-clear carts? For real… help us understand why you need to get it all the way to water-clear.

I ask this question because water-clear distillate can be highly prone to oxidation. So much so that water-clear carts can be a real pain in the ass to produce consistently at scale. (This is not surprising because getting it water clear removes virtually all of the natural antioxidants.) To put this another way: when one is not hyper careful with big batches of water-clear distillate, one usually ends up with big batches of purple distillate (which is painfully counter-productive).

A small amount of natural color (e.g., very light yellowish) in your distillate will often help to prevent oxidization… at least this has been my observation.

Food for thought.

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If u can do it without magsil pr, youd be way better off, no need to use an expensive powder that is meant to do other things besides clear up ur disty.
Magsil pr route will send u down a rabbit hole trying to figure out how to ph correct the oil properly, so that u dont get the purple.

If your serious and starting a company based on consistent clear cart production your going to need a glovebox that is backfilled with argon. Backfill with argon at every step of the way, extra points if u get a big enough glovebox to fit a microwave.
If u want to take the extra steps to setup the box u can get o2 sniffers that tell you how much o2 is in the box.

It can def be done with cold extracted ethanol crude with no dewaxing or degumming, u just need to transfer over to pentane or heptane to do color remediation effectively.

To make it easier on oxidation, ive been splitting my batches into A grade (yellow) and B grade (could have some green or pigments, from warming up in the centrifuge). A grade just gets decarbed and sent to the SPD, B grade gets diluted with heptane and sent thru powders and then ph balanced with ph water. Both get thrown together for first pass then a sample is taken and left out for a day. If it goes heavy purple or heavy red, then i do one more ph balance b4 it goes for second pass, if its still nice and clear or slightly yellow, it doesnt get any adjustments and just sent to a second pass in spd. The combination of powders i use, costs me roughly $16/liter to clean up, if i used magsil pr it would probably be around $160/L to clean up (these figures are for bulk buys of powders, if ur buying small retail sizes ur cost can probably be 5x from what i said)

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Ah yes that was extremely helpful! I believe i have the knowledge to proceed now. I’m sure there will be some snags along the way, but can’t know until we get there. I cannot thank you enough. I have seen you on so many threads helping folks out.

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So, that’s an awesome question. I basically made the assumption that water clear d9 is more pure/higher quality. I figured if i could make water clear, then leaving some color in the cart would be a more simple process and easy to accomplish at that point; as opposed to the other way around. Also knowing the tek seems like a good idea for when someone does find a solution to the oxidation issues.

That being said, at the end of the day, myself and my patients will be very happy with a nice, lightly colored cart that tastes pleasant, and hits smoothly throughout. Absolutely no opposition to leaving some color in to help with oxidation issues.

I think i’ve since learned too that even very very pure thca can still be a tint of yellow, so i’m not entirely sure that water clear is a more pure d9 like i originally did. But, dead ass honest, i think they look really cool still lol minus the oxidation rings. I currently get some that are water clear and my patients don’t care about the color from the oxidation. Despite no one asking, I’ve explained to them it was either oxidation or pH (wasn’t 100% sure at the time). I don’t think they could have cared less. Regardless, I hear what you’re saying and appreciate your input mightily! Water clear may not remain the end goal depending on what happens along the way.

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Mmm that’s some good info right there. Low ass overhead might legitimately be my first, middle, and last name…haha. yeah. i went down that rabbit hole two nights ago lol fickle sounding process, but i’d give it a try. like to try to dabble in a little bit of everything if possible. Thank you for sharing some of the finer details of your process, that wisdom goes a long way.

I think i had read that somewhere else on here as well about backfilling/sweeping with argon (possibly from you on another thread?). I’ll have to do some more digging into gloveboxes as i only did a quick search, and saw they can get pretty pricey.

I’m pretty small scale at the moment and the majority of what i rely on is just straight flower. I’m trying to get into making carts and better concentrates in general to make sure my patients, girlfriend, and i have a steady supply first and foremost. I also think i could do better on that end in terms of my overall model. I’m very centric on flower at the moment. Not a bad thing, just always trying to improve…and also no shade towards my extract dudes bc i’m pretty sure they’re on here somewhere, super cool dudes, just hard to get a hold of sometimes. I think we all know how frustrating outsourcing can be at times.

Quick question on this. Rotovap after cold ethanol extraction, or nah? Feel like the answer is probably yes considering i’ve read pentane is an angry volatile mf, but that could certainly be wrong. Process would be ethanol extraction, rotovap, pentane/heptane was then boil off, spd?

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I haven’t ignored this question, i just didn’t know the answer lol i think this answers it well though.

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https://www.harborfreight.com/40-lb-capacity-floor-abrasive-blast-cabinet-68893.html

Heres a cheap option for a glove box, theres some modifications u still need to make but its very close to what u need for cheap.

You def need a rotovap or some sort of device that recovers solvents effectively.

First time i attempted i made a diy glovebox out of a plastic container, sleeves from a tyvex suit and some gloves. It can be done for cheap lol
Ive got clients that make water clear carts on a $200 budget, so u can too! (Sorry let me clarify, they have a $200 budget to fill carts after they recieved or made the water clear disty)

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You can certainly make d9 distillate that when you put into carts will look very very close to water clear that are completely stable.
The solution of using converted d9 (even if it tests in the high 90s) should be considered much less desirable because of the significantly less desirable stereochemistry difference that will make naturally occurring d9 that tests even at 10% lower “feel” stronger because of said stereochemistry difference.

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