The fake willbilly here with some gummie questions

[COVID-69]

@Willbilly11

These gummies are made with fruit puree,OG cane sugar, glucose syrup, citric acid, and Apple Pectin.

Lose the fruit puree & switch to natural flavors.

Switch from Apple Pectin to Citrus Pectin. Apple Pectin is not recommended for gummies.

@Willbilly11

This report of a hot gummie is probably 1 in 500- 1 in 1000 odds.

Then I would imagine you are getting the occasional clump, or probably more likely – your consumers’ physiology is just more susceptible to stronger effects than usual here & there. Consequence of offering what I would consider an irresponsibly high dose.

@Willbilly11

I am doing 66 grams of distillate per (500) 4 gram gummies, or 4 ml gummies.

That math checks out on a basic level if there is no excess slurry & no shortage of slurry – makes 500 exact.

Side note: 1g does not typically equal 1ml with gummy slurry.

@Willbilly11

The taste isnt the issue so much as wanting to achieve consistent results 100% of the time.

Tough w/ puree & apple pectin.

@Willbilly11

Slowing the gelling down could help! We have been working to make them more heat stable for shipping, but that is a different topic.

Use HM slow set 60-65 ester pectin. Sodium citrate to stop pre-gel. Crank temp up 10-15 degrees when you add citric. Heat your molds in oven before laying them out. Use lowest citric acid concentration you can to achieve gel. More sucrose, less glucose.

@Willbilly11

So ive been reading up on brix, and dont have a way to measure such

Great Atago refractometers are ~$250 & well worth it. Get one that can properly measure in the 70’s & 80’s SS range & at high enough temps.

@Willbilly11

Im not sure what AW is?

Water Activity. Package below .65 AW. If you package above .7 AW, they will mold. AW meters are ~$5k-$6k.

Can get by without – if gummies get moist after sealing, you see droplets on sides of containers, sugar coating melts into gummy… you are at risk of mold. Unseal, re-sugar, and dry some more.

@Willbilly11

can the strength vary that much within a single liter of distillate?

It can vary within the liter. Probably not enough to be the source of this issue. Certainly varies within the batch. Still probably not the source of your issue.

Another note.

I’m guessing you aren’t using a PH meter. You will want one for sure. Target PH depends on brix you pour at & sugar makeup, among other smaller factors.

Generally 3.2 - 3.6

[Willbilly11]

Wow,Thank you. Im going to have to go back to the drawing board. I have had no issues with mold, and I get where the irresponsible part of this is coming from, but I have people that seem to need that. Is it irresponsible to offer this, even when I have a lower dose gummy available?

[Willbilly11]

Does anyone use a low temp (80 degree) dehydrator to address moisture?

[cyclopath]

@Willbilly11

Is it irresponsible to offer this, even when I have a lower dose gummy available?

If they’re not ALWAYS the dose you say they are?

Sometime WAY higher?

Not quite on the same level as fentynal to their heroin and call it good, but still bad form.

All the same (homogeneous dosing), and high dose only sold to those that have explicitly requested them, after demonstrating the can deal with 50-100mg (or at least claiming they can), would be the place to start imo.

[Willbilly11]

To clarify you were thinking I was referencing THC, I am NOT. These are full Spectrum CBD gummies. The people taking these know what they are taking , and it is not certain it is a homogenous issue, as it could be a consequence of a strong gummy, and peoples metabloism and hydration changing from day to day. I have warnings to keep away from children, consult your docotor if you are on medications, stay hydrated, start with half if you dont know your tolerance, and wait 3-6 hours, and
dont operate machinery under the influence.

Please dont talk about those synthetic drugs that are killing people in reference to this plant extract.

[cyclopath]

@Willbilly11

To clarify you were thinking I was referencing THC, I am NOT

Yep, my bad. Poor reading skills & only registered “some get really high”. Not an expectation with CBD

If some folks are getting a rocket ship ride, then they are getting substantial THC.

have you tested your input distillate yourself to confirm the coa that came with it?

Have you had any of your gummies tested?

It’s unlikely, but not impossible,that you’re making D8

You also asked via DM for refs.
See: First reported death due to CBD drug interactions, brace yourselves

As a starting point

[Willbilly11]

That crossed my mind but they are tested, and no ones getting a rocket-ship ride, it brings on anxiety. I will be the first to say you can absolutely take enough to have a change in perception, for me I can even get the giggles around 600mg , and have consumed up to 1500mg at once. Everyone acts differently to CBD, and the main purpose in this was to find if there was a better way to homogenize the mixture. Which seems that it probably is as homogenized as its going to get.

As for the reported death, I believe that was with CBD isolate since it was in spray form. It is my understanding the full spectrum doesn’t have that implication, but I still instruct users to consult their doctor if they are on medications.

[cyclopath]

“full spectrum” means WHAT to you?
CBD distillate? (previously meant RSO?)

there is ~4-5% THC in there! they are presumably getting high off the THC.

@Willbilly11

the main purpose in this was to find if there was a better way to homogenize the mixture.

are you diluting your distillate before adding it to your mixture?

@cyclopath

dilute your distillate before adding. which is in most of the gummy threads.

did you follow the links provided and LOOK for suggestions on HOW to achieve that

No? then you are NOT

@Willbilly11

as homogenized as its going to get.

here is ONE of the many ways that might be achieved…

@steelrollin

• Place Full Spectrum Distillate into oven in Pyrex glass container at 165-175 F to make it fluid
• Place Lecithin into oven to match temperature of fluid Full Spectrum Distillate
• Once the Full Spectrum Distillate and Lecithin are the same temperature mix the distillate with Lecithin until fully combined (5 mins)

and another.

@MillerliteRN

I also prepare all of my beakers in the beginning with 40 ml of PG and the target cannabinoid. Mixing with a hotplate/stir bar. Target temp for PG is 120 F, everything seems to mix well at that temp (for me).

Right before you add the beaker of PG and cannabinoids into the bowl, give it another spin on the magnetic bar.

you can find at least two more options if you go look at the protocols others have shared…

[cyclopath]

@Willbilly11

As for the reported death, I believe that was with CBD isolate since it was in spray form. It is my understanding the full spectrum doesn’t have that implication

what are you proposing as a protective mechanism here?

it’s wishful thinking…

@Willbilly11

Please dont talk about those synthetic drugs that are killing people in reference to this plant extract.

why not? it’s a discussion that needs had.

there are folks spraying synthetic cannabinoids on hemp and selling it. addictive and potentially lethal…

there are folks selling liters of “d9” that they’ve cooked up from CBD in their kitchen at home. it CAN be done right, it often isn’t.

just because it’s “weed” does not mean it is safe.

@NewLevelProcess

And it’s not the cb receptors your docs are going to look at it’s the cp450 pathways. You don’t want cbd prolonging drugs in the system by accident.

Cannabinoids and Cytochrome P450 Interactions - PubMed

[cyclopath]

@Willbilly11

That crossed my mind but they are tested, and no ones getting a rocket-ship ride, it brings on anxiety. I will be the first to say you can absolutely take enough to have a change in perception, for me I can even get the giggles around 600mg , and have consumed up to 1500mg at once.

tested? how many individual gummies? if you’re looking to quantify homogeneity you need to test multiple individual gummies.

at 1500mg you are getting on the order of 60-75mg of THC…

5mg of THC can make some folks pretty damn anxious.

[Willbilly11]

Touché I am not doing that, so I suppose that should be restated, I will look into that, but I am looking to avoid lechtin that is canola or soy based. My understanding is that full spectrum is non isolated, but compounded. Its distillate and the gummies come in at .87mg/g of Thc , so yes it could be a negative thc reaction, if someone is super sensitive, or it could be a negative cbd reaction , long of the short of it I have more learning and work to do, but what ive been doing has been helping alot folks get affordable sleep, so i want to continue to safely offer it to them. I have a 10mg gummie for people who dont know their tolerance.

As for the CBD Isolate argument, I was told this by nurses at a conference that were being actively silenced. It was weird and I would love for someone with more info to speak on this. I ACTIVELY warn folks about cbd interacting with chemo drugs. Why this is I do not know, but thinking isolate and distillate interact the same is like saying coffee and isolated caffeine act the same .

[GummyChad]

@cyclopath

there is ~4-5% THC in there! they are presumably getting high off the THC.

I think lowering his size would help with that then but as he stated his clientele only want big molds.

I will continue reading and catch up to see what the current solution is

[cyclopath]

@Willbilly11

My understanding is that full spectrum is non isolated, but compounded.

not usually; although I certainly know of cases where it has been done.

“full spectrum distillate” = we distilled it, and this is what we got.
isolate = crystallized (most of) the CBD out of out “full spectrum”, so now we can ship it across state lines.

99% vs 80+% plus some other stuff (some of it being THC).

vs “FECO” aka RSO at 50-55% plus fuck knows what.

there may absolutely be things in “RSO” that make it “better” for some uses. there is not a whole lot of difference between your distillate and isolate, mainly THC, and some other minor cannabinoids. not saying you shouldn’t add them, just that 3% beer and 90% moonshine both work in the same manner, certainly easier to kill yourself with moonshine than near beer, but still a formal possibility.

proposing that 99% and 80% CBD are different enough that you don’t need to worry about interactions with other drugs for “full spec” but do for “isolate” isn’t where I’d start.

getting folks what they need is great. not trying to beat you up or get you to stop. trying to help you get it right.

you have a homogeneity problem.

diluting your cannabinoids before mixing them with your candy will go a LONG way towards solving that.

you don’t want to use lethicin? cool. you should look at the OTHER options…(and have been handed how to find them). I could hand the specific diluents to you, but the reading required to find them will likely up your game in ways you never imagined. so go read…

(assuming you can do it legally) I’d suggest you offer 5 and 10mg THC to those that request higher dose CBD. might find that it’s actually the THC that’s helping them sleep. 1:3, 1:2, 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 are all ratios that I’ve seen folks have success with. keeping the cannabinoids separate (eating one of each) is usually how I help folks find the correct ratio for their specific use case. If it’s ONLY about sleep, try adding CBN.

[pdxcanna]

This is a massive

You don’t mix the citrate with the pectin/sugar mix, you add it separately?

[COVID-69]

Unnecessarily high liability. Limiting your profits, too.

People with high tolerances can just buy & eat more. Why can’t they do that? Why does it have to be in 1 gummy?

What happens when someone gets one 2nd hand not knowing the strength?

If that strength is your primary value prop, you do need to go back to the drawing board.

[COVID-69]

@Willbilly11

These are full Spectrum CBD gummies.

Oh LOL

@Willbilly11

as it could be a consequence of a strong gummy, and peoples metabloism and hydration changing from day to day.

Yes.

Primarily the expectation, though. If it’s 135 mg full spec CBD, then it’s about 7mg THC. Nearly a standard edible dose.

They aren’t feeling relieved by the CBD, my friend. They may think they are.

[cyclopath]

@Willbilly11

It is added when it is hot and runny , and then mixed and quickly poured. Thank you for all the thoughts so far!

Have you read as far as: Gummies: add straight distillate heated up or does it need to be cut with something?

Edit: turns out the answer isn’t there (yet…)

[pdxcanna]

Got this, some potassium sodium tartrate/sodium citrate, and a few new pectins to play with

I’ve been getting better, but hit the limit of what I could without better tools. I’ll get a proper refractometer soon as well