A Layman's Diary

So, I’ve started playing around with different oils to use in my edibles and beverages. And just want to keep this as a public diary. I honestly have no idea what I’m doing and spent way to much money on things I probably don’t need but it has been very fun figuring things out.

First attempt was using 1:1 Sunflower lecithin to distillate. After 5 minutes of high shear homogenizing, 4 parts butter was added to 1 part SL&D mixture. Homogenized for another 5 minutes. I think the RPM on the HSH was too high because the butter mixture came out a little fluffy. It did not affect final consistency. But, due to my poor choice in WHAT I infused, the overall potency leaves much to be desired.

Next batch was distillate straight into the batter, once again 1:1 with lecithin by weight. This turned out to have a disastrous effect on dosing range. Some pieces seem to have no medicine while others are like tickets into the ether realm. Would not recommend this at all. It also does not help that I mixed it with a spatula for about 1 minute.

I picked up some xanthan gum, tween 80 and suspendrx. Will be using 1:1:0.5, distillate, SL, and SuspendRX respectively. Tween 80 while used a lot as a surfactant, will be my main preservative, but the emulsion properties will be helpful. It will be 1% of the final weight as well as the xanthan gum. The final mixture will be homogenized into the final product using a baking mixer and immersion blender. Will update with results and send in for lab testing once I’ve found something that I think works.

I’m no scientist, I actually failed chemistry in high school. But I think that everyone has the ability to learn how to do some pretty neat things with enough research.

Edit: I told myself I wasn’t going to try and reinvent the wheel. But finding a new way to use different compounds and food safe chemicals to get my desired result is just so exhilarating , :stuck_out_tongue:

~Failed Chemistry

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Homogenization: How do you Homogenize?

(Maybe I should go fix the spelling…)

Plus the hits to homogenize which (now) include the above…

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Looking forward to seeing your progress @FailedChemistry. All kinds of good info here on the topic.

I like to use liquid sunflower lecithin, too.

My go to for oils are usually solid, unrefined coconut oil for recipes calling for butter, because I love the flavor and texture it gives, and liquid coconut oil for recipes calling for vegetable oil. Both are easy to work with, and taste great.

When using butter, ghee is the way to go, which is basically clarified butter. It can be used at higher temps without burning. Grapeseed oil is supposed to be one of the best carrier oils, because science, and has a high smoke point, so it can be pretty useful as well.

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Ah, the king has replied!
I’ve read a ton of your post and have basically read and reread every “emulsion” and “homogenize-” possible which is why I kind of know where to start. Just recently came across a great post on dosing that was ultra helpful too.

Once I’ve got the basics down I’m gonna get a sonicator and use the SOP on here for same nanoemulsion :smiley:

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Nah, that’s someone else…:shushing_face:

Glad you’ve found the bits you’re after.

My primary goal here is to make the trail easy to follow for anyone that comes behind.

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^This Man is Rolling Stoned around these parts^
I can’t confirm that to be fact, but that’s the word on the street anyway…

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i appreciate it honestly, I was using reddit beforehand and it was just a bunch of uneducated people speculating on things they’ve never tried but read in a blog somewhere . You, and the rest of this forum have given me confidence that I can one day make some really cool stuff. Happy to finally be a part of the community and look forward to what may come!

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That’s how addictions start Junior…
You will find many rabbit holes if’n you like reading! Welcome aboard! It’s nice when someone actually takes the time to read before they ever say a word! Be you, and You’ll be alright!

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I need to increase my brain power so that I can read published research papers on this stuff without my brain hiding in a corner. One day… one day.

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So. I’ve made some great headway.

First of all. SuspendRx is a waste of money. If you are buying it you probably don’t know why you are even if you think you do. It is nothing more than just a carrier oil. Similar to mct. Moving on.

Prior to some belief that xanthan gum can aid in the emulsion process, i can ensure you that it does not. At least not in the multitudes of test i have done. I do use it though as a persative, to the tune of 0.5% of final weight.

While I’m on the topic of persatives… Polysorbate 80 ( Tween 80) is disgustingly bitter. At the recommended dose of 1% of the final weight. It is so over powering. I was able to neutralize 100% of the onset flavor with dextrose, but the aftertaste is still there. The best way to describe it is… soap. An oily soap.

I went full balls to the walls and made my own base syrups for flavoring from scratch. Lots of trials and error but ending with a great tasting final product. Except the aftertaste. The forward facing flavor is great. Not too sweet. Not too over powering. But God damn is the aftertaste bad. I think it has to do with the thc syrup SOP I used here.

There’s another thc syrup sop floating on the internet that used a very similar process and i may use that next time.

Right now, bitterness is what we’re trying to fix. Lots of research papers later and quickly learning it’s a problem many companies face when using excipients or surfucants. Any one have any tips?

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Tried at attack the bitter today.

Made a mixture of sodium, dextrose and bitterbloc.
First i tried it with just PS80 to see if it would work.
The effects were some weird cooling of the taste buds. But the saltines and sweetness override the bitter.

I then scaled that to the thc syrup (because the resulting SOP along with some ps80 made a long lasting, soap LEVEL bitterness.) Results: not great.
I doubled and even tripled the bitter making mixture without adding more dextrose (will try adding the equivalent of later) and it still had a bitter taste. Just wasn’t budging.
So, I added extract, which helped, a little. The extract added the extra flavor. And in a way, covered the bitter. But it kinda just tastes like sweet, bitter extract now. Because it’s syrup (used more as a concentrate) it can be pretty ridiculously over whelming by itself but can be diluted to make a better overall product.
I got the thc syrup to something palatable and figured the dilution with water and more importantly other flavorings, that it would be better.

I mixed the thc syrup with the other flavorings andddd. Sweet Bitter oil water. I’m guessing this is from the lemon syrup i made. Lots, and lots of dextrose but no other significant blockers. I’m gonna try and add the other pieces that make it it’s bitter. But because i used so much water it has to be used in high amounts to affect flavor. I may remake it with less water so that it’s more concentrated. And then use the correct amount of PS80. Still gonna try to save what i made though.

That’s all for now.

Also… I put the final product from last night into 34F last night. No separation or rings, etc, in the morning and while bitter, not as bad while it was cold.
Now to do a day by day test to see when the oils fall out of suspension

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Do you have direct recommendations on using the surfactant for ingestibles? I think if you continue to use topical-focused surfactants you might continue running into (nearly) unavoidable flavoring issues.

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I did the same thing lol. Started making my own cereal bars with cannabutter, making cannabutter I googled and added some things to make it better/easier yk adding your own thing to it over time. Your own method. Then started dabbling with distillate and making distillate cereal bars then gummies and cereal bars and then specifically gummies. Do everything on my own w it that way. I just need to keep notes more but have my recipes and techniques memorized and imo have found the golden way for me to make quality for gummies.

Also failed chemistry and literally all of my classes and started to learn on my own from real knowledgeable people and applied any more knowledge I learn to it. Just need to get better at taking notes for everything in general

Yeah. The company i bought it from gave me their ingestible formula (basically just weight of the ps80 and nothing else)

I’m an absolute goofball. The paper says 0.1%, I’ve been using 1% lol!. I’m not sure how dangerous that is. But I am going to remake the lemon syrup with the correct amount of PS80 and it will more than likely make a HUGE difference

. There’s 1% in the THC syrup. but I am diluting 7ml of it in 12 oz. So basically .7g of PS80 to 360g of water

EDIT: I looked at the math. and I’m at 0.2% PS80 per 12 oz. Sooo looks like I wasted 10g of distillate, nice.

Another EDIT: I think I ingested around 10ml of PS80 testing flavors today and around 20ml of SuspendRx(using it for the BitterBloc). Rip my colon man . It was nice sharing my thoughts with you all. It was a good ride lmao.

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On a good note, the last batch of edibles I made had pretty consistent effects all throughout so there’s at least a W somewhere in there.

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Lots of development in the edibles amidst a hectic personal life.

First, I figured out how to make drinks. While still being “safe”/“legal” with the FDA. And that is… grain alcohol :smiley: . We all know ethanol dissolved distillate like no other. When combined with a homogenizer, there’s not many better options for complete homogeny.

So why then does no one recommend it when making edibles?? If you’re cooking the edible the miniscule amount will burn off leaving just the thc (at least, that’s how the chemical reaction SHOUD work). Not too sure. But I am making drinks, which isn’t like pouring wine on steak. I have to worry about laws regarding alcohol content in beverages. But if Kombucha has alcohol, why can’t my drink?

Kombucha usually has around 0.3-05% alcohol. That last number is important. It is the line between non-alcoholic and alcoholic beverages. It is the determining factor between under 21 or needing a plethora of licensing to not only manufacture but sell such a drink. I think people are afraid of this. How can you possibly have such precision to not have even .1% over the legal limit allowed, is probably a question you are asking. I asked the same thing. The truth is, I have no clue. Kombucha is still allowed and I don’t believe for a second that these people are perfectly fermenting these drinks to be at or below .5% EVERY time.

So, I know the limit allowed. I know that it is being tested and probably broken all the time. So how do I take 151 proof ethanol, and put it in a 12 oz beverage without breaking that law. it’s tough
My first dilemma was volume of the mixture/emulsification in the first place.1:1 is pretty tough with the emulsifiers I had to use (no need for Tween because alcohol is a preservative in itself. But I did use xanthan gum to help mix things better and partially prevent separation once it touches cold water. Along with some other things). And then there’s the volume itself, the actual amount of liquid being used. I’ll use easy easy numbers to help.

10g of disty to 15ml EtOH (151 EC). With about 10ml of emulsion material.
This means we have 75.5% of alcohol in about 35ml.
And for average sake, 9,500mg of thc. So 9,500mg/35ml = 271.42mg/ml simplified to 272 (I don’t like to round down. Rather round up to be safer than sorry.)

If we want each drink to be 100mg thc that means we a need 0.367ml drop per 12oz bottle.
At 75.5% ABV in 0.367ml gives us an alcohol content of 0.277ml.
0.277ml of alcohol into 12oz of liquid gives us a total of .078% ABV/12oz

100mg THC and 0.08% ABV per bottle… WOW

I mean, can it be beaten? Sure. But if you’re looking to sell your product and don’t care if your customers need to shake your bottle (because I promise you they do not care they need to shake a bottle if it tastes good) then I don’t really see a more efficient way.

Now if you want to be on the “bleeding edge of cannabis” and go nano, then it’s gonna be a challenge. And you’re gonna have a metric ton of nasty surfactants that probably will be found to poison people and cause cancer or something in 15 years. For me, I couldn’t afford the R&D or the time so I went this route till I can.

And before you say “NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES AND THC”. I’m no lawyer but I’m pretty sure this is like saying drinking kombucha and driving is illegal because it is alcohol in it.

EDIT: I didn’t search the forum because I’m not asking a question but it seems like people have done this? Technically? Not specifically in a drink it seems and people hate explaining math in depth on here so hopefully this will help someone in the future haha.

I also read about people not liking the scalability of certain methods so here’s how it scales. It uses a line. Very similar to the way coke makes their products. Each bottle is filled with a certain amount of syrup (the thc/EtOH) then carbonated water (to make this easier just premix and pasteurize) and then capped. This is super easy to automate. Counterpressure filler for sterilization and boom, auto drinks.

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Long time, turned my idea into a business. Things are difficult and crazy but well worth it.

Finding insurance is a bitch and don’t let anyone tell you starting a hemp/canna company is easy.

Anyways, for anyone that comes up on this thread, this version of putting distillate into water is hard. I tried to recreate it. It didn’t work.

TEMPERATURE IS EVERYTHING. What i realized is that I was actually evaporating most of my ETOH off during the disty-alc-xg cooking so keep that in mind. Edit: i want people to understand, when they are no and learning. So here’s WHY this is bad
: The only other additive in that mixture is the xanthan gum. The XG and the distillate hate eachother. Think of the ETOH as the binder. When that’s gone, the XG and disty will get hard, fast. Put it into a bottle it will float, get stuck on the sides and that will harden too.
Do lots and lots of smaller test if you decide to repeat my steps. I’m falling asleep. Will update letter

I’ve now moved into nano emulsions. The SOP in the forums is basically unusable in my opinion. For most people’s applications it taste horrible, which is par for the course when it comes to drinks and THC.
But that’s not something we can stand by so I paid for a better sop, and had a chemist help me out.

I also came across a friend selling D9 THC drinks. They somehow mixed cannaoil with sugar and the drinks didn’t seperate. Obviously the method of buying flower is not cost effective, and selling D9 isn’t legal in most places. But maybe this knowledge can help you.

That’s all for now, happy holidays to everyone.

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Is this the SOP that you’re talking about?

I’m a personal user who made edibles for a long time but now want to try to go nano for a potentially more potent and consistent dose.

That’s SOP seemed affordable enough for just me and my at home use, but if it isn’t worth doing please steer me in a better direction.

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https://doi.org/10.1111/1541-4337.12189

This article will give you all the informations you need to produce a nanoemulsion via low energy spontaneous emulsification.

It is an alternative, which does not need expensive ultrasonic homogenizers. But you may need to work on the taste, since you use a lot more surfactant and it will get a really unpleasant bitter taste

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