is it possible to make a nano emulsion without a surfactant using just water?
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You can make an emulsion, but it won’t be stable. Also not nano
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no you need surfactant and the nano shearing thats caused by the high frequencies made by an ultra sonic
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thank you for this! awesome and clear writeup
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no sweat! if you need equipment sourced for this hit me up! i own part of Scientific Solutions.
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The nano seemed to have a very fast onset but was gone just as fast. Are other people having the same experience?
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oh nice, actually I’ve purchased from you more than a few times, you’re always one of the first places I check when i need equip. Mclain in I stay in regular touch, he’s the homie
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So people just run their emulsified product through a spray dryer to get a solid form product? I feel like I am missing something because in my head, if you take tween 80, oil, and water, mix them, then take the water back out you have just a gooey mess. Spoons would be appreciated
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There are copious amounts of maltodextrin that it is mixed with to make it a solid when spray drying. Remember, even though it is in powdered form, the active ingredient is still an oil so to get that oil a powdery consistency takes lots of filler.
Basically, a spray dried product is even more of a dilution then a nanoemulsion with surfactants, etc.
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Okay, that makes sense. Does the cyclodextrin allow a lower surfactant ratio than a liquid product?
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Sorry, I meant to say maltodextrin. And no, not from my experience.
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Depends on wether or not u want ur stuff to look more transparent when mixed in.
Most drinks people are mixing into arent clear to start out, so using less suffracant and spray drying immediately after should work just fine
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From some quick reading in molecular gastronomy notes, they use 40% maltodextrin to a 60% fat solution.
So if u were able to spray dry it instead of just adding more maltodextrin until it gets powdery, my guess would be to add 20% by volume of maltodextrin before attempting to spray dry.
Anyone made their own spray dryer?
They sell em for like 10k, and looking at what goes into a unit, they should probably be diy for 2k or less
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Maybe we can find out on Monday. I think I have some zorbit and acacia on hand.
There is another type of surfactant blend called LSO which when spray-dried turns into a powder this SOP only shows the water emulsion product, however they are ran the same the only difference is the Spray dryer at the end
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Can you email me your info for water soluble recommendations?
You should still have me email @ldt-works.com
Need to buy some sooner than later here.
Interesting, based on their marketing language and what I’ve read recently I’d say its probably a TPGS/PVA blend. I think I’ll get some PVA to play with it.
Supposedly TPGS can be spray dried directly as well. I think I’ll play with this later; and if all goes well, I might soon have access to a sub micron particle size analyzer to verify with.
So it looks like you can spray dry directly without a binder. I can’t access the paper here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167701218309849 but the graphic in the abstract suggests what I’ve read elsewhere, spray dried will have a larger particle size (probably in the 200-400nm range depending on equipment) and the performance of the nano is reduced when spray dried.
I didn’t think that turned it into water soluble, just a powder, so you will have oil sitting on top of your liquid
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You are right, the maltodextrin is not used in the formulation of the emulsion, it is used in the process of spray drying to make it a powder.
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