You just took me on a ride in the way back machine!
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I remember there were actually people pushing for this in Colorado back in 2018…
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You’d see it in every country where cannabis has a market, honestly.
had to make a throwaway because my primary account is too easily tied to my employer.
the udoxi guys, quite frankly, are fucking losers. they walked into my extraction room back in 2016, scoffed at my bizzy setup, and claimed that they were the first people to have the separation vessel not mounted directly to material column. then they claimed anyone who did this would be paying royalties to them.
can you imagine trying to say you invented the fucking hose? these guys are dirt, they might get away with a few lawsuits but once they have to go up against a real legal team they will get laughed out of court.
also, i’ve seen the operation - let’s just say there’s a reason they consult instead of produce, and it’s not because they made great extracts. they had some impressive hillbilly tek going on and that was about it. quite frankly, they could be the smartest guys in the biz, and i would still never work with them because their attitude towards a complete stranger was so disgusting to me.
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there is some “bad news coming”…or so I hear concerning US Patent 9,144,751.
I am only the messenger.
Future it may be time to give that Law Group a call for updates …or have your Lawyers write a little brief for the forum.
In fact it might be fun to have AI write a brief about that patent.
I’ll keep you posted.
Again, I only do water. Water has many patents.
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I am going to leave this right here. This circulated widely in 2022. Read this and imagine every processor with 15% less margin (p.29).
GPT Brochure 2022 (1).pdf (6.0 MB)
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ExtractionTek is and has been actively fighting this and other patents for the last 3-4 years.
To date, we have been able to invalidate multiple claims in a similar patent, also being represented by Genepool Technologies, US 9,587,203 B2 leaving the remaining claims limited in their value.
@Sidco_Cat can confirm that we have been vocal about the coming nightmares related to IP in the industry for some time now.
Anything this industry can do to organize and approach true IP in a productive, collective manner makes sense and should be explored. As more companies go under in their initial business models, IP claims will only increase as they make their exit (i.e. Capna.) There is no shortage of IP firms itching to get involved as precedents get set. Ironically, some of them are funded by the same VC’s that funded the initial cannabis push. Funny how that works huh?
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Dang looks like peeps using centrifuges might be infringing on their patents. Interesting to see guild doing their patent with them.
@Waxplug1 what are your thoughts on if they go after your customers for infringing on a patent
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I’m gonna go with “well duh!”
Aka “Obvious to anyone skilled in the art…”
Folks haz been spinning to separate liquids & solids for a very very long time, claiming that it’s “non-obvious” is complete bollocks.
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They are and continue to do so. Companies are settling out of court. Look at the pie chart. Those are companies that they have identified as using their technologies. Some of them have already started paying royalties. Some of those companies are fighting back. Most are oblivious.
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These are the commissions that Gene Pool Technologies identified as using their patents. Some have already settled.
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The legal advice i recieved (I’m in canada) was to regard all cannabis knowledge/information as a “trade secret” and not to patent anything until international IP laws are established… that could take years… even a full lifetime before we see such a thing.
Until that occurs, i was instructed to keep all sensitive information private from the public and furthermore i was told cannabis patents are currently utterly useless until recognized internationally.
I would imagine the patents on technologies used for botanical extraction are recognized internationally, seems like solid groud to stand on to me, if one was to pursue legal action.
I feel bad for anyone that got scammed into signing any type of agreement. There is a reason medicine is pretty much all Petro chemical based, and why the actual compound is protected and not the process. Hire an in house attorney, lots of great lawyers willing to spend their days defending you for 100kish
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Page two Gene Pool Technologies Inc.
https://developer.uspto.gov/ptab-web/#/search/decisions
2013…you have to give some credit to genius and business acumen of UDOXI crew…Ten years ahead of everyone.
I feel like there’s this whole thing about you have to defend your stuff and if you don’t it becomes common knowledge and when its common knowledge its much harder to defend all the way around.
And with all the patents I’ve been on for pharma - half the fucking time we change one or two things and bam, new product and process.
Did you change just one thing? Did you optimize? Sounds like you have a new process and not the old process… and you should probably tell your IP lawyer that.
I know my last two patents we did this A LOT - specific to why the existing patents were insufficient for the work we were doing, why we needed the enhancement and how those enhancements made what we were doing different enough to be patentable.
Now I just fight for everything to be patented and then OPEN - so everyone can use it to their hearts content. Open source always makes me feel better… billionaires probably don’t need all the money, do they?
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Little strong on the “genius” complement there. They caught a weak USPTO examiner and were awarded a non-novel process patent that will be challenged successfully in the future.
They then sold that patent once they lost their Precision case to a patent house that is now trying to handcuff the entire industry with royalty fees which Udoxi no longer receives in full.
Capitalistic yes, fucking an entire industry that offered you opportunity (after you failed as a manufacturer) yes, genius no. They were the puppet in this scenario, and whoever holds the strings makes the money in the end IMO.
Not speaking for ETS here, personal opinion. You’re right this needs to be taken seriously, but let’s hold the compliments for the time being, they may not age well.
-Sean
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Not saying it will be easy; invalidating claims is basically the way to cut a patent down and this one should be pretty simple. Making small changes is enough to get far enough away to have your ass covered.
Once the patent has enough of its core claims cut out, its harder and no longer profitable to enforce. Fucked up for sure; I’m glad you guys are there fighting this and invalidating those claims is a huge step.
Props to you guys for taking that on.
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Hmm you say they lost the “ Precision Case”….
Can you reference that? Or what do you know about that?
Yes as stated a year or two back…I understand they sold the patent. Someone knew what they were doing perhaps both made a good deal. Got any idea what a piece of shit Patent like that is worth?
Sean, I’m going to be straight up with you, because your family knew how to spell your name correctly, I’m just doing the wise guy shit stuff.
Seriously, there has been a lot of change in the industry the last 5 years to say the least.
I would suggest if one were a decent chemist…you wouldn’t have to worry about the Patents.
Have you thought about switching over to water?
Basic pH water- extraction of rescorcinols goes back to the 40’s in the academic literature. I can teach you the SOP for the food kitchen method: “Organic” for 300K. Three HDPE “buckets”, a Buchner filter and pH meter… and an understanding of Anion chemistry…you‘’ll be good to go and have no bad feeling about patents on Butane chemistry.
However, one might get in touch with the “crew” at Udoxi and see if they might help. I know they still consult.
Note: original statement about Korte may have been in error…removed.
Moronnabis, I appreciate the point you are trying to make and in a traditional industry this would be the fair and cheapest form of action of course. I am not a chemist personally, I don’t pretend to be and I don’t make any excuses for that. There are multiple skill sets that go into any successful company and a company’s ability adjust is always a positive.
What you’re not arguing as a chemist is the business side of the process. There was nothing novel in the process that was patented. In fact, this board is a good example of the sharing in the community that lead to much of the chemistry that the space currently employs. In my opinion, early companies in the space took that shared knowledge and are now trying to monetize everyone’s efforts solely to make money. I struggle with this group specifically as they sold out to a patent house that honestly should not have the opportunity they were handed, they had no hand in the hard work already completed.
The USPTO is not what it was in the past and it could significantly impact everyone’s ability to be successful moving forward without a collective defense. We are seeing it across multiple methodologies in real time right now. I’m not bitching about “your friends” I’m genuinely concerned about the longevity of what we have all built together. I am holding a bullhorn not a shotgun on this argument.
Listen, you want to talk get a hold of me offline or let’s grab a meal in Vegas. With the legal actions being employed currently, it makes zero sense for me personally to argue details in a public forum with a chemist who does not understand many of the nuances of being a manufacturer.
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I agree. 100%
Patent law in a forum on Legal Cannabis Extraction industry which evolved out of felonious activities of the past… is a strange mixture.
One would not expect a great reception.
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