Water soluble cannabinoids without nanoemulsions or encapsulation

CBDA “louche” you are pain free in 8 minutes.
“Hitting the bottle in Oregon!”

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Someone probably stated this before, but you can plate cannabinoids onto maltodextrin powder and make a cheap water soluble powder that way. Nothing too crazy about that - although I believe there is a patent out there for it.

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Yes maltodextrin is a very common additive in vacuum spray drying techniques to make water soluble powders.

Long, long, longtime lurker here. Logging in to just drop some information about Flash Nanoprecipitation because it’s easy as hell.

https://www.sigmaaldrich.cn/CN/zh/technical-documents/technical-article/materials-science-and-engineering/drug-delivery/flash-nanoprecipitation

I’ve 3d printed a CIJ mixer and maxed the emerging solution out to 150mg/g d9thc potency before it hits the quench.

Or is your formulation more of a SNEDDS that doesn’t assemble until it contacts water/body fluid?

I have a separate formulation I use for production, I just like my printed mixer for home lol.

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Welcome!

Quite the entrance.

Care to share the print files?

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Sounds like Palcohol.

That’s cool but you’re still using pegylated stuff, no?

Beyond q-naturale and lecithin/phospholipids, I haven’t really found a scalable solution that’s “clean label.” Except for possibly @moronnabis louche stuff.

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I’ll have it up by the weekend :+1:

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I understand your point now. Yes, ethanol tinctures have long been available. Unfortunately, this isn’t based on ethanol, and because it isn’t, the issues with oxidation are a tad more than you can experience with ethanol. It’s yellow in color because of its active ingredient, but if stored inappropriately, it may get bleached. You do have to store the base in a cool, dark place, away from direct sunlight, to get the expected shelf life. Once the cannabinoid is dissolved, the resultant solution has to be stored in a cool, dark place again, but it can’t be refrigerated - the solubility of the cannabinoid goes down in the low temperatures and it crystallizes out or separates out as a different phase. As I mentioned before - the base works but it has its limitations… if you store and use it according to the instructions, it serves its purpose pretty well.

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I actually read about SNEDDS for the first time today (I’m not a physical chemist), and I thank you for bringing this up. What I read, it seems to be similar in principle to SNEDDS, but possibly a more hybrid model. But yes, the emulsification happens only after water is introduced into the system. Before introduction of water, it exists as a homogeneous mixture… to a naked eye, it looks like a clear solution. There was no DLS done, at any stage of the process. But what you get, after introduction of water, is certainly not a nanoemulsion… particle sizes are a tad bigger. Irrespective of the particle size, the onset times look good (there were no bioavailability studies done; the only thing known are the onset times).

Also, you mentioned your emerging solution had 150 mg/g of Δ⁹-THC - that’s 15% (w/w). This solution will unfortunately have only around 5% (w/v) of the cannabinoid concentrate, and since the density of the solution is around 1 g/mL, it’s ~5% (w/w) or about 4.5% (w/w) of active Δ⁹-THC (considering the distillate has 90% active Δ⁹-THC).

No, not in the present one. But a hybrid system is being worked on with lecithin, hence phospholipids.

With Tween-20 (and straight distilled water), we already have one process, but that requires ultrasonication - out-and-out.

Just answered

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5536339

Freshly uploaded, so if the link doesn’t work now try tomorrow

also I am a child so I added a secret message :musical_note:

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How is it you are able to introduce the THC resinous material ?
In this “clear solution” of neutral cannabinoid…are you sure you do not have polyols as substitute for alcohol…I think the key for whether you true emulsion is the oil factor. Do you have a detergent solution that is clear first. The question is not what you are starting with……it is what spontaneously appears after the addition of water….
That is the solution that appears opaque and structured.

Or am I confused about which step you introduce your cannabinoid?

SNEDDS are super cool because of how low-energy it is, for what it can do. I haven’t made them, but I’d love to try. Soft-gel pills could be a good delivery method if the solution doesn’t dissolve them.

My math was based on mg into total solution weight. For ex:
5g of 90% distillate in 10g EtOH + 15g of water+other.

@dankfrank, Welcome to the community!

I was curious what the cross section looked like on your FNP.stl model, How well does this design work ? lol I mean provided it was stainless and not PLA

I like that it seems low rent but i am totally skeptical that it will work as well as a flow cell, but hey, maybe im wrong :man_shrugging:

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There’s a clear liquid, homogeneous. Let’s call it the base. Whatever emulsifiers, phase transfer agents etc., which need to go in, are present in that base. The active ingredient I mentioned, qualifies to be called a polyphenol in some ways, and a very conjugated one at that (it’s colored; and H-bonding with the cannabinoid is possibly involved). Into this base, the THC resinous material, as you suggested, is added in a molten state, with stirring, at around 60 °C. Once a clear solution is obtained (in case of THCO, instead of a clear solution, a translucent to opaque emulsion is obtained; in case of all other commercially available decarboxylated cannabinoids, it’s usually a clear solution; in case of Δ¹⁰-THC, it’s unpredictable), the stirring is ceased. This solution is the water-soluble tincture. When an aliquot of this water-soluble tincture is added to water, we get what, to the naked eye, seems like an emulsion - the one you suggested is opaque and structured. For CBG, this opaque and structured system is not obtained, and the CBG merely precipitates out from the water.

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Well, if you do have to use ethanol, and some emulsifiers/surfactants, my suggestion would be to leave just the water out. Now, you can encapsulate this cannabinoid + ethanol + emulsifier - an anhydrous mixture, using a matrix which is soluble in water, but insoluble in the above anhydrous mixture. There are a few tricks here, but you can obviously figure out. Now, when this encapsulated material - soft gel, capsule or whatever it is - comes in contact with water (inside our body or in a glass), the encapsulation matrix dissolves → contents of the anhydrous mixture (cannabinoid + ethanol + emulsifier) are released into water → an emulsion of some capacity is formed.

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Anhydrous moeity, heavily cropped (not sorry lol). I got some tricks and toys lol.

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