This ebook from Industrial Sonomechanics is also super helpful.
Ebook_MAKING_STABLE_EMULSIONS.pdf (2.1 MB)
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Has anyone actually found any of this to be beneficial in any way? I’ve tried a variety of nano and “water soluble” products and all do not seem superior in anyway to a normal oil infusion.
Onset seemed to take longer then normal as well which is opposite of the intended purpose
I’ll have to find my lab notes. I can’t recall off hand as I have done so many experiments. One thing I noted was this was not the most stable of the emulsions, and my customer did not want to use polysorbate.
Whats the most stable emulsion you’ve made? I’m not afraid to use polysorbate as long as it’s safe for human consumption, but I’m mainly wanting to see if the onset for the emulsion is quick and effective with the ingredients you’ve used. I’m thinking of a quillaja blend with either acacia gum or polysorbate at this point but am unsure.
The most stable emulsion I have made is the simplest. CBD, thinned with a small amount of grain alcohol, and gum Arabic. No carrier oil and no surfactant. Homogenized for 15 minutes with a Polytron homogenizer (Cascade Sciences) at 30,000 rpm, with a super fine generator. This was for a 500 ml batch size with a 4 parts gum to 1 part extract ratio. The key is to homogenize the sample until it is HOT.
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That is very interesting since everywhere I’ve looked they’ve always mentioned to use emulsifiers and carrier oils. I have a high shear homogenizer and I’ve noticed that the ultrasonic homogenizers are much more effective and can handle emulsions much better. I was wondering if I could create an effective stable emulsion using the high shear homogenizer at all? Also to get the sample hot would I need to use a hot plate?
It depends on your high shear homogenizer. The one I am using is a Polytron 10-35 GT with an ultra fine dispersing generator (probe). Due to it’s high shear rate, it puts enough heat into the sample to bring it to a boil if you ran it long enough. The method of high shear until it is hot was suggested by the supplier of the gum Arabic. I have customers who are using this method, but the haven’t shared the details, not would I be in a position to share them if they had.
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Again yea I have not seen any benefit from nanoencapsulation, microemulsions, complexes, etc . Do people see any real benefit? Onset or potency hasn’t increased at all in any of the forms I have tried
Seems like people are spending a lot to achieve what seems very gimicky or placebo like
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I still think that putting a sulfate, phosphate, or carboxylate to make CBD water soluble is a better route than encapsulation. That being said, there are many patents that throw a bunch of random lipids into ethanol and water with CBD in it and evaporate the solvent off to make liposomes.
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I do agree but was referring to the pharmacology. Due to the different uses and nonpsychoactivity of CBD it’s hard to personally bioassay. However, with THC, all forms of emusion or complexing have not shown to be stronger or faster acting then the same dose dissolved in oil
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They won’t be consistently sized or small enough to make a difference- you need to reduce them down to 100nm or less.
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Liposom encapsulation, when done correctly absolutely does aid in bioavailability and there is a vast volume of data out there to support that- problem with cannabinoid encapsulations available in Th marketplace currently is that very few folks out there know how to make them properly so that they actually perform, and more so stay stable- liposomes are delicate and are easily broken down during post processing and long term storage.
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Meanwhile there are folks out there using the wrong equipment ( like you ) who are claiming to be making enhanced bioavailability liposomes but have no clue that high shear and gum Arabic will do virtually nothing to aid in bioavailability- a high shear with a few gumming agents will only create a stable emulsion- that’s not water solubility.
You need to go way smaller than an HSH will even touch- and sonicators don’t create stable liposomes- there is way too much energy introduced into the system to make them last while also oxidizing the ever loving shit out of your cannabinoids - study zeta potential and you will understand this- ultrasound causes way too many hot spots of high zeta potentials and once you let your sample sit the various spots will even themselves out and collapse-
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All I have ever claimed for my method is creating stable emulsions for food and beverage applications with particles in the 1000 micron range. I’ll leave claims regarding solubility and bio-availability to others.
Interesting information regarding ultrasonics.
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the change in functional groups should help cbd become water soluble. granted, it will be a different molecule.
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The last one I was did was measured at 40nm particle size. Zero difference. Theress plenty of evidence with other substances but little concerning cannabinoids.
How did you measure the particle size?
What delivery system were you seeking to create?
What was your method of nanosizing?
How soon did you measure the particle size after preparing the sample, and did you take multiple measurements?
What is your solutions starting Ph? Ending ph?
What admixture ingredients were used?
What preservation steps are being taken to ensure stability?
How was the sample bioassayed? Typically applied? swallowed? Buccal? Sublingual? Suppository? Pessiary?
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I got your post entangled with a few others it was about 4am my time sorry if I came off as rude- there’s a lot of people in Canna making ludacris unfounded claims that actually will be endangering the industry if left unchecked.
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Do you recommend going the High Pressure Homogenization route then? I have seen online that ultrasonic processing works but it seems like you have greater experience than me. You said that ultrasound causes way too many hot spots of high zeta potentials so this seems like it would be worse than high pressure homogenization.
No worries. Upthread I have warned against the same things you are with regards to unfounded claims. For those who want to read further on the topic:
Liposome DrugProducts: Chemistry, Manufacturing, and Controls; human Pharmacokinetics and Bioavailability; and Labeling Documentation Guidance for Industry
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