Trs21 vs cmep vs passive

Trying to figure out the best option.
My boss got a new system.
The solvent tank is 12x36 jacketed and has a internal coil.
Going to be running it to empty and recovering. Trying to figure out the best option at this point for recovery.
Trs isn’t even really an option as it’s tiny and slow.
So basically cmep ol vs a chiller capable of cooling this tank and running passive (What size would that even be?)
Already has 1 in valves on it.

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My 2¢ a chiller to run passive.

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CMEP is junk. If you aren’t going to run passive a Haskell is probably your best bet.

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How much is a Haskell rated for per min?
What’s the price range on that?

How much solvent are you running?

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https://www.glaciertanks.com/haskel-ext-420-2.html has them for $4331 & freight. This does not include necessary infrastructure equipment like a large air compressor, dryer and plumbing.
Pump displacement is 20 CI but actual flow numbers are dependent on a bunch of factors like inlet/outlet temps and restrictions, how high of pressure you are running on the air side, is your air compressor big enough to keep up, etc

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So what all would we need in order to properly run a Haskell?

70lb ish

Any suggestions on a chiller capable of running passive with this tank?

My guess would be the same one you’d use for a falling film. But I think someone more qualified is better off giving you an answer. @Killa12345 @Soxhlet can give better answers.

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I’ve had great results with my cmep ol. Ran one for 2 years straight before deciding to get a rebuild. Then recently got another and run dual cmeps and my recovery times are great. Not like some of these crazy passive guys but good for active. Probably average 2-2.5lbs/min

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Buy 6 trs-21’s and make a manifold and zoooom, active allows you to just keep the collection base hot and I my opinion is more user friendly, by the time you set up a descent passive system that size you’ll be shelling out more cash then 6 trs-21’s. I say yes-21’s because I find them kore reliable then cemps I own both and prefer my trs-21s and you get more pumping power per dollar with trs’s

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your going to need a cascade refrigeration system if you want to get to temps that low, a chiller used for an evaporator won’t get cold enough to do what you want. How much surface area are you looking to cool, and how much heat energy are you putting into the system for recovery?There are other factors like how many lbs of solvent you are using, the blend of the solvent, and how your system is insulated, ext. Lastly how cold do you want this thing to get?

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Passive.

A haskel will run you 10k roughly. Very likely less, but expect that. They start @ 7k for their small one. Small. And that’s what’s used on an ets 1300. That’s a 2lb system.

The touch science 50/-120 is a very powerful chiller and is more than capable of handling passive recovery.

quotation sheet on chiller(1).pdf (247.8 KB)

Granted more expensive than the haskel. But, it’s faster, quiet, and zero contaminates from the pump making it into the solvent.

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Ouch 15k. I’ll run it by the boss man.
I assume at that price he will want a pump instead for less.
What kind of times would one expect running passive on 3/8 or half in lines?

You’ll also need a consumable, or another chiller for condensing, anyway, when using a pump. How do you plan to chill your solvent otherwise, or do you plan to use warm/room temp solvent for extracts?

And that $15k is a good price. If you want another chiller that’s comparable. The huber 915 is $103k and you need another $20k chiller to keep that one cool.

$15k before shipping and fee’s is an extremely good price, in retrospect.

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We run warm.
We were going to go dry ice slurry if we go active for condensing

How much does dry ice cost you?

You’re probably better off with an mvp pump, or a Korken.

If you run warm, then you are probably better off with active, honestly.

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Again I’ve heard 1LB a min on 1" or 1/2" lines.

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I agree with Intergalactic. If you’re choosing between trs, cmepol and passive I would vote for using 4-6 TRS-21’s ran in parallel.

I have been using 4 TRS-21’s on a 12" collection pot for several years and have had great luck with the TRS’s. Yes, they’re small and fairly noisy, but they’re also pretty affordable and I’ve had great reliability as long as I prevent oil from entering them.

I find a lot of people are surprised that oil can make it into their pumps easily. When the port size necks down from the 12" base to whatever your line size is, the vapor velocity shoots way up and can easily carry oil mist into your pump.

For reference, the chiller that Dred linked looks like like it’s a 3 stage cascade refrigeration system using R404, R23A and R14 with a max temp of -120C.

While it has powerful cooling of 10,500W at -40C which would be good for passive, it also contains 3 different refrigerant compressors, expansion valves and other associated hardware to achieve the low temps that aren’t really needed and IMO just present more opportunities for potential failures and time offline.

IMO chillers are much more complicated and prone to problems (especially the Chinese made ones) than pumps, except the CMEPOL which is garbage.

Also, don’t forget, your recovery rate will be highly determined by your ability to get heat into the recovery pot. You do need to make sure you have enough CFM of pumping power to keep up so that’s important but you can’t just say things like “A haskel will get 1.5# per minute.” or “1 inch lines will get you 2# per minute.” It all originates with how much vapor generation your achieving as the governing factor and then making sure your pump capacity or line size is not acting as a restriction.

For example, if you have an active system and you change line size to a wider bore or add another pump and you start getting a better recovery rate, it’s not directly because of the bigger line size or pump. It’s because your vapor generation was so good that flow was restricted and you freed it up. A wider hose or bigger pump does not cause more vapor to be generated.

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