So after reading the latest developments on the Mayo clinic’s studies observing that these injuries appear to be chemical related, the first thought that came to mind was the terpenes. I know this might be a touchy subject, because so many of us have a vested interest in assuming that terpenes are a more suitable diluent over the standard fare of vg/ pg/ vitamin e/ mct oil, but that also includes me, and I’m not happy to report this, but hear me out…
During my 30 hour CALOSHA training i attended last week, while discussing workplace hazards, the instructor briefly mentioned the dangers of the terpenes found in natural indoor paints oxidizing into toxic aldehydes and ketones (like formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acetone, among other things) when exposed to ozone. Apparently these VOCs created a serious workplace hazard that contributed to some adverse health effects for workers in
Terpenes reacting to ozone? After doing some research, i was surprised to discover the extent of how unstable terpenes really are in their isolated form. So far I’ve found that ozone, hydroxyls, and nitrates found in the atmosphere are most reactive.
Considering that these studies are only looking into exposure to VOC’s in indoor/ambient environments, I can only imagine the extent of the damage incurred from the direct inhalation of taking a fat rip off of a high powered battery mod.
I guess my next question would be, what is the likelihood that the terpenes used in these formulations might’ve been exposed to ozone, nitrate, or hydroxyl radicals somewhere down the chain of events from production to consumption?
Is this something we need to all be aware of as an industry? I’ve been clueless to this, and i just wanted to share what I’ve discovered to see if more capable scientific minds might be able to chime in and either tell me I’m tripping or perhaps delve deeper into investigating this. Your thoughts?
Oxone exists in atmosphere so these Carts were sitting exposed to atmosphere for who knows how long. I had a molecule that would fall apart when left exposed to the air in grad school. Not surprised that terpenes would react when sitting around.
By the way here are some studies on what happens to the contents of e-juice. Some of these molecules are very toxic.
Since they said it was like caustic chemical Burns it makes me think it was just uber hot cartridge temps paired with shitty cartridges and maaayyybbeee shitty contents. But I really think it was from temps and carts themselves
I have nothing to base this off but the last bowl I ripped so this might be a waste of typing, for some reason I suspect materials in cheap carts are reacting with terpenes. I don’t know what type of chemical reactions are going on in that cart especially after heated but I suspect they’re super corrosive to cheap material. This is based solely on my chemical intuition and a ok bong toke. Plz educate me why I’m wrong, or correct, or just too high.
In the pdf i posted it did list that certain metals do cause reactions to occur. From the pdf - Stability of Essential Oils, listing external factors that trigger reactions it has listed:
Metal contaminants
Upon distillation in primitive stills or during storage in metallic containers, impurities of metals can be released into essential oils (Treibs 1960). Equal to light and heat, heavy metals, especially copper and ferrous ions, are considered to promote autoxidation, in particular if hydroperoxides are already
present (Guenther 1948; Choe and Min 2006). By catalyzing hydroperoxide decomposition, Fe2+ or Cu+ as well as Fe3+ or Cu2+ give rise to alkoxy and peroxyl radicals, respectively, which, in urn, promote radical oxidation reactions (Figure 4). Moreover, the formation of singlet oxygen by ferrous ions and thus the initiation of photooxidation have likewise been reported (Choe and Min 2006)"
Elsewhere in describing the alterations and possible consequences it states:
“Though autoxidation has been particularly investigated in the field of fatty oils, it also plays a most crucial part for terpenoid deterioration. In the course of this spontaneous, air-induced oxidative process, unsaturated molecules react in a free radical chain mechanism with aerial oxygen into a range of primary and secondary oxidation products (Figure 4). The course of reaction will
depend on molecular structure, oxygen concentration, energy input, and the impact of further reaction partners. Promoted by heat, catalytic quantities of redox-reactive metals, and exposure to light, alkyl radicals are initially generated and readily react with triplet oxygen to form peroxyl radicals.”
So could this one of the contributors as to why my carts oxidize and turn red around the base? I always assumed it was due to oxygen, but i guess there’s more going on than i thought.
Teflon definitely causes cancers. It’s just the least cancery in relation to how useful it is. But there’s a ton of PTFE issues, I think some of them are swept under the rug because it’s so damn useful and chemically compatible.
How do we feel on ceramic or quartz carts? Those should be non-reactive?
Also, fucking China. We’ve sold out our ability to produce anything, and in turn our ability to have any actual quality control in our end user products. The market also demands cheapness over safety
I’m also a bird owner and the SLIGHTEST amount of PTFE in the air is enough to kill birds. Cooking with non-stick cookware? Your birds are dead. Doesn’t matter if they’re on the other side of the house.
Sure, most vapes don’t get that hot, but it’s not something I’d risk for myself, or my birds.
This is where we should start as the carts produced in China contain lead, brass/copper to name a few. They do not produce heavy metal free carts I’m China. What they did was figure out that with a Chromolly coating they could pass heavy metal testing. So underneath that shinny cart are the toxic heavy metals you do not want to inhale/ingest. Maybe the terps are eating away at the chromolly coating then leaching HM into the oil. The longer the carts sit the longer the terps have to dissolve the coating. Mayne we should take a few used old carts apart and take a look under a scope to see what we find.
What we need to still find is a changed variable to explain the spike. That’s what’s the most baffling thing. People have been using Vapes for a longass time. What changed?
Right. If it was just that terps are eating away at Chinese carts and releasing heavy metals we would see more of this. Metals themselves wouldn’t even cause these illnesses, it would have to be harmful compounds made by the merals. Still, it’s confined enough that we have to look for something really weird and unusual…
Just over time as they oxidize, i notice the color changes into a darker red all around the base. It’s definitely terpene related, because some flavors are worse than others.
Damn. So i wonder if this toxic chemical reaction has anything to do with the nasty throat/nose tickle irritation i get from some of these carts?
I’m not anti-marxist but I am anti oligarchy and anti-fascist, but China is the monster of soviet style communism and american capitalism roled into one… They are literally seizing the means of production on a global scale. If your babies are eating melamine in their baby formula, do you think they care about our illegal drug using grown up selves? Most individuals probably care, but they’re not even allowed to use the products these devices are intended for, so it creates a level of seperation that is inevitably dangerous to our health. Whether this has anything to do with that or not, we need to be making atomizers ourselves, and preferrably ones that are actually designed to be used over and over and not thrown out. Our disposable culture has allowed this problem to fluorish and it will only get wirse if we do nothing
However, the chemical burn and toxicity seem to dictate the method of extraction used. It very well could be this is due to the hydrocarbons (butane, propane, heptane, hexane) not being properly purged from the oil prior to being placed in a cart.
People also forget ethanol is a toxic carcinogen. Ethanol vapors can cause all types of issues. If it’s denatured ethanol, that contains up to 5% heptane.
