Shatter is still shatter after decarbing

I usually decarb shatter for edibles, oven at 225’f, oil will get to 250’f, I do this for 45-60 minutes, pull it out after 60 minutes because I don’t want it to degrade and lose potency.

This time I ran shatter/crumble, after 60 minutes, let it cool, it’s completely hard shatter, not sticky to the touch at all.

So with my paranoia, I don’t want to over decarb the oil. The way I interpreted the decarb chart is anything over a certain amount and you start degrade and lose potency.

So, hotter, longer? Can it be fully decarbed and still shatter? I didn’t think that was possible

Don’t use an oven. Air is a lousy thermal transfer medium.

Watching the CO2 bubble off is huge help in understanding how long you need to decarb, so doing it in an open container where you can stir and monitor that CO2 evolution would be my recommendation until you’ve done this a couple of times.

You may also want to consider the possibility of pine resin…how much do you know about this “shatter” and it’s providence?

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Usually I make my own oil, have been for a decade, been making edibles for 5 years. Usually I use my vac chamber, but I’ve never had a problem with the oven.

This oil is from a friend, oddly orange, supposedly forbidden fruit. Mix of shatter/crumble. I ran it again, oil temps at 270’f for about 35-40 mins before I pulled it. It’s like normal decarbed oil now.

I’m sure it’s some 2nd or even 3rd run stuff, but he’s the only bulk guy I know. But it’s half the price of the oil I make from flower. Mine is way better, but it’s easier to buy “bulk” from him. My friends and family have become cart goblins over the last few years, so if I still made oil, I would be bleeding my flower dude dry just to make carts and edibles.

I’m fairly limited because of the state I live in

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as a mix of “shatter & crumble” there may have been more terpenes than usual, or there may have been more water… either way, evaporating those off happens at the expense of energy that would go to decarboxylation. which could slow your decarb down. especially when using still air as your heat transfer medium (convection ovens work great).

if it is behaving as you expect, and you trust your buddy not to sell you Fake concentrate? - #14 by stoopkid then you’re in good shape. there is a bunch of product out there that has been adulterated with pine resin and other nonsense

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Respect the concern, thanks for the heads up. I’ve already processed 100+ grams for carts, I decarbed this oil the same, 250f for 45, minutes, definitely should of gone hotter/longer as the carts are thiccck. I usually keep my cart temps low to preserve terps/cannabinoids/color, don’t have equipment for color remediation.

If you’re making carts, you might want to looking into; Decarb under pressure to retain terps?

Also explored under: So I made a thing to decarb with....

Using a liquid thermal transfer medium rather than air will allow you to dial your process in better. Monitoring the actual temperature of the extract is also helpful.

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I did some thinking, my main priorities are preventing degradation of potency and material lose

I went through his thread. I’ve actually checked out his vessel before, though it was dope. My question is, without a sight glass, how can you tell if you have achieved full decarb? Just trusting time/temp? Trusting time/temp is what I’ve always done, so would I be in the exact same situation I’m currently in?

He claims pressure doesn’t lower the boiling point, its mainly to preserve terps. Now if I’m reintroducing terps, and preserving them isn’t my priority, is there any added benefit to a pressure vessel? Is the vac chamber or hot plate suitable? I can watch the oil, agitate it by moving the oil around the ptfe sheet.

That last shatter I posted, was in my vac chamber, digital heat pad on the bottom, shatter was on ptfe sheeting, monitored oil temp with infrared thermometer, it was a minimum of 250’f for at least 45 min’s. That was after being in the vacuum oven, with a minimum of 170’f, for a 5 days. Still came out as shatter. So if i cant trust time/temp, are visual ques the only measure left to trust? Without actual testing equipment of course

I’ve been reading that the classic “decarb chart” is kinda bullshit. It refers to hexan/oil mix on a open air hot plate. It would also make sense that not all oils are created equal. For example, I’ve read comments on here about crumble having a higher melting point and requiring longer to decarb. This orange shatter/crumble my friend claims is PHO, made with propane, maybe that’s why the decarb process is different? I had to run this oil much hotter to get an actual decarb. I had to get oil temps to over 270’f before it would actually decarb, and according to that graph, it would degrade so fast that i would lose a large amount of thc and would never reach full decarb. I noticed he set his pressure vessell at 100’c for 2.5 hours, granted, its not that hot. Should I have left my oil at 250’f for much longer, instead of increasing temps? Degradation is my main concern, I don’t want to burn off thc and lose potency.

I have been thinking about getting a ptfe graduated cylinder, I was going to use to homogenize terps and oil. I was going to wrap the cylinder with a digital heat pads to control the temp, monitor temps with a probe. Maybe I could decarb and homogenize in the same cylinder, without material loss transferring vessels?

After all, the only thing that really matters when it comes to converting thca to thc, is heat and time right?

Sorry for rambling, I never had this problem with my bho or any other oil I’ve bought before.

I had some suspicious “shatter” tried to decarb it. For a while. Never got the co2 bubbles. Suspicion confirmed. Trashed it.

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It did decarb though… just slightly hotter then normal… It was bubbling at 250, more so at 270. when I took it out the 2nd time, no more bubbles were coming out, when cooled it had the standard decarbed features. Incredible sticky, melts and gets sticky instantly when pulled from the fridge. I’ve consumed it, it works.

Decarb is done when oil stops bubbling. You can decarb at 160c on hot plate or 260c just pull it off when bubbling is done.

The temperatures are what the hot plate is set on, not solution temp

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Depends on your definition of bullshit I guess.

See: Decarbing during solvent removal for one of the variables that can change decarb times

I’m guessing by “crumble” you meant what many would call “sugar”, so you might also find the following useful: Why does BHO sugar take 4x as long as shatter to decarb

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Precisely. That’s the thread I was referring to.

When I say bullshit, I mean a inaccurate measure which isn’t always applicable.

Two threads linked…so it’s not clear which you are referring to.

I have ptfe filed as an insulator, so making a decarb vessel out of ptfe wouldn’t be my first go to. Stainless or glass and heat have solved most of my transfer loss dilemmas

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I was decarbing at 160c then changed to 180 then 220 after that sugar thread. I did test some to see if there was degradation with the higher temp and I saw very little if any. I linked the test but I’m not sure which thread it was. I go by bubbles and it’s worked very well for me

The temperatures are what the hot plate is set on, not solution temp

This is not it but here is some decarbed at 220 until bubbles stop. The 1% cbn could be degradation from the decarb but I don’t have tests of it before so it’s hard to say for sure

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Everything that melts will boil if it gets hot enough. When I decarb cannabis oil it looks like a puddle of Pepsi going flat. Tiny bubbles. Once it’s flat, cool it off and eat it.

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Sorry, I was referring to tom’s thread about sugar.

Ptfe considered an insulator, thank you for that, explains a lot. I’ve always had heat transfer issues using ptfe sheets in my vacuum chamber. I have up the heat pad to achieve desired oil temps. I though the poor heat transfer was due to surface contact issues with the base of the vacuum chamber. The pfte sheets I use are kinda thick and inflexible. I evaporate my ethanol solution, purge and decarb in the same chamber without transferring the oil, that’s why I don’t trust the thin ptfe sheets.

I’ve always had transfer loss using glass or steel, I don’t know proper technique. Is the solution basically heat and time? I assume my prior transfer issues were from cooling vessels which coagulated the oil preventing efficient transfer.

You got a heat gun?

Indeed I do

Ive had shatter that was hard as a rock and would still stay relatively firm when you held it in between your fingers, but still stretched a bit. It was orangish gold but smoked great and melted clear and clean on a banger, but you had to break it off with your hand a dabber would crush it or send it flying. But, when i had decardbed it, it was the same deal as you. It seemed to be a thinner consitincey after i had decardbed and cooled it down, but the next day when i went back to it it would still break apart when i took a dabber to it. It seemed like a really similar consistency to your stuff, and it had definitely gone thru a color change when it had decarbed. It wasnt exactly like the original consistency, it was a bit more runny and sticky but it was not like anything i had handled before, most shatter will be relatively soupy after a decarb. I ran at 240 for 45 mins in an oven

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