Revursed osmosis


#1

Ok long shot but i think worth the effort
Separating cannabinoids by means of revursed osmosis from an ehanol extract.
There are several patents Outthere
Separating Organic oils from ethanol extract by means of revursed osmosis
size of the oil molecules is probably first step to figure out what type of membrane to use
So question is who knows the sizes of cannabinoid molecules or where to find Some info aboad this?


#2

O i also think that Separating chlorofyl from an ethanol extract by means of osmosis must be possible because of the magnesium molecule in chlorofyl


#3

Look at cbd and thc molecules and ask yourself if you would be able to seperate these molecules based on size… the answer is no. Think about what you could synthetically attach to this molecule to specifically change the size of one and not the other and try to seperate


#4

Nice theory
But My interest is seperating all extracted material from the ethanol
Thus ethanol passes through the membrane and the rest stays out
Even If Some cannabinoids terpenes flavonoids and god knows what els passes along in the ethanol if i can lower the solvent saturation point the ethanol might be used again to extract without having to distil


#5

So this unit i wan t to buy but i Need to know the size of molecules i want to separate from ethanol extract
Any body Any sugestions of what else to try ?


#6


#7

This is a really interesting idea, and from a pure engineering perspective I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
Of course, that makes the question rather if it’s economical to do at scale, but I think you might be on to something with this.

I don’t have the background required to calculate or provide the sizes you’re looking for, but I’ll be watching this topic to see what smarter people than I have to say.

EDIT:

Looks like:

Chlorophyll is in the range of 893 Da
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.21430772.html

THC and CBD are somewhere in the range of 314 Da
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.15266.html
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.559095.html

Ethanol is in the range of 46 Da
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.682.html

So mu guess is that in theory if you did a two step filtration you could remove the chlorophyll with say a 500 Da filter, and then strip any ethanol and water with a ~50-100 Da filter.


#8

Your the man
I wasn t able to find these Numbers
Thx so I Will order the apparatus by next week with the membranes
If there is Any test You would like to see done let me know thx a lot


#9

So you want to do this only to remove ethanol from your extracted plant material?

Ethanol molecules are smaller than most cannabinoids. So might work if you had like a 0.05 angstrom (or whatever the size of ethanol molecule)membrane and kinda use the spaghetti strainer technique.


#10

I have a feeling it’s easier to distill the etoh off. Think about the massive amount of byproduct a reverse osmosis filter bypasses during it’s use. They’re getting better but I imagine you would only see like 10%of your etoh reclaimed using a membrane filter.


#11

Guy s as i Said long shot
But If You read the research reports on this lemongrass extract recovered 93% etoh
Sevaral difrent organic oils all with a minimum of 63% clean etoh recovery
At a speed of 1500 liters an hour
Without heat so thca stays thca
IT is worth the effort i have been setting up appointments with manufacturers
Wich Will be interesting conversation for i am in Holland and concentrates are hard drugs over here😜 But he
I will report My findings and progres


#12

I admire you persistance in the face of criticisms. You will go far and if there is a way to pull off the challenge you have set for yourself I am sure you will find it. If it was easy, everyone would do it, right? :pray:t3::clap:t3::clap:t3:


#13

Thx iT is just an idea
I read of all these folks getting wiped film evaporators and desperate searches for massive amounts of etoh recovery
And just wondered If anyone tried
Giessen not so i Will i have No use for the idea but what the heck
Keeps me off the streets🙂
By the way congrats on your site i am a fan off your tech and humor


#14

I like this idea.
We had a short discussion about this today, and came to the conclusion that it makes a lot of sense from a fundamental perspective, but that there must be a reason no one is doing it.
Of course, that reason might just be that no one has seriously tried it.

I’d appreciate it if you would post at least the titles of the articles you’ve been reading, I’d be interested in catching up on the research as well. Thankfully I’m on a plane all day tomorrow so will have time to catch up on some reading.


#15

I am sorry new on this site
So No knowledge of sending links
So i do iT this way

. I have read Some My next step is walking up to machine manufacturars and talk to them i caled evonic yesterday and asked If there are Many custumers for. Their organic extract filters they weren t able to give Numbers only saying that the iT s their largest growing product line
From 1 to 8 or from 10000 to 80000 i don t know :grinning:
Most of these units seem to be custom made by local manufacturers
Any how seems like france is the country in europe that uses most
But as i Said before i personaly have No Need for this so Yes i Will do My best to get info and i Will do Some tests My self
But i have No Need for speed sorry


#16

Since I saw edible oils were commonly RO’d, I was surprised no one at future4200 was discussing it. Not something I’m at the scale for, I wanted it for degumming etc as in the below patent, not solvent recovery, but thats an interesting idea. https://patents.google.com/patent/US5310487


#17

just copy/paste the link where you would normally type.


#18

@Roguelab I’d considered this as an option, but had not gotten around to tracking down available implementations. imo it’s absolutely worth exploring.

will it be more energy efficient that vaporizing, then condensing our solvent, to get it back? dunno… and that is the whole reason it’s worth looking in to.

changing the way we do ethanol recovery would be a major win.

thanks for the links!!


#19

Here are the above-mentioned articles if anyone needs some light reading.

Koike2002_Article_SeparationOfOilConstituentsInO.pdf (126.7 KB)
abraham1991.pdf (392.7 KB)
Köseoglu1990_Article_MembraneProcessingOfCrudeVeget.pdf (688.4 KB)
Organic Solvent Nanofiltration in Pharmaceutical Industry.pdf (1.3 MB)
lopresto2016.pdf (874.0 KB)


#20


This might be Nice for drying etho