If the message is “vit e acetate is safe” and the messenger is the guy selling vit e acetate as a cutting agent, then I would respectfully disagree.
Study? A letter to the editor does not qualify as a peer reviewed article. The fact that there was actual data in the supplement absolutely changes the weight one should give it.
Sure, I “backed pedaled”…or at least re-evaluated. That’s what one should always do when presented with new evidence that doesn’t fit.
Now, I never said accidentily. The way I see things there are 3 major possibilities in order of how likely I think them to be:
I realize #3 is a bit of a leap for most, but in a world where doctors who share cures are murdered and Goldman Sachs openly asks if its profitable to be in the market of producing cures… Well, there is a seat for malice at the table of capitalism, no doubt. Just my insight/opinion
I agree it does matter if the person who sells something is telling you it’s safe, unless they have independent proof to back it up. But, I didn’t do that in this thread, I never said it was safe or unsafe, I just pointed out how people were wrong in blaming vit E acetate for VAPI through lipoid pneumonia.
I never one wrote the Mayo Clinic study was peer reviewed. Not once. I have no idea why you keep going back to that. My point was you tried to use my use of the word “study” as a way cast doubt on what I was writing, that’s a total logical fallacy.
I agree when someone realizes what they wrote was wrong, they should correct it. And I thank you for that. But just a FYI, that’s also the whole reason I wrote this thread. Because lots and lots of people were accusing vit E acetate of being the cause of VAPI from lipoid pneumonia, and they were wrong.
Thanks for the friendly back and forth. This is what interactions should look like.
The only gum on the foot of #1 is VAPI that has been occurring since at least 2016. That means it shouldn’t be something new, unless something new is creating the same situation as something that has been used in the past.
All the unknowns are just so frustrating.
Do you have any evidence that these lung injuries are indeed the same as the current epidemic? In other words, were they lipid pneumonia? Were they described as causing reactions consistent with caustic burns?
Of the 17 lung samples the Mayo Clinic studied, two samples came sick people back in 2016 and 2017. I can find the article but not until later today. Those sick people had the same caustic chemical/toxin damage as today, not lipoid pneumonia.
For now, at least one of the articles I already posted includes a quote from Dr. Larsen, lead researcher on the study, saying this current outbreak of VAPI isn’t new, and that it has occurred in previous years. He was quoted as saying the cause likely isn’t new either.
The issue is the sick people were misdiagnosed years ago, and it wasn’t until after the CDC released case definitions in August that doctors did a retrospective to find old cases. However, after the Mayo Clinic released their study, I assume the CDC will have to update its case definitions.
What if there was an ingredient that was extremely unstable in air and light and degraded into nasty compounds like quinones on its own. But when mixed with certain chemicals or metals produces more toxic stuff like phosphine gas.
Most recent release. Researchers have found a link to a lung condition called “metal fume fever” when exposed to certain metals believed to be tied to cheap cartridge manufacturing processes.
That works for “cheap pens”, and covers the OR dispensary related deaths. Do we need another excuse for the Jul users?
Fake Juul carts and pens? There are tons of counterfeits. Juul was just complaining about them, they have gotten many taken down from Alibaba.
Beat me to it! Cadmium chemical pneumonitis causing VAPI?
And here’s another thread I just made: VAPI outbreak FAQ and open discussion thread
Is it time for a VAPI forum here? Would declutter the site a bit.
@anon87263109 it wouldn’t be the first time China smuggled cadmium out of China in their exports back in 2009 or 2010 there were recalls on some children toys as the noses of the stuffed animals contained cadmium. China doesn’t want the toxic metals so they’ll try to hide it and smuggle it out one way or another
Over heating and dry hitting the vapes could be a problem. I’ve been trying to think what could be another external factor. One could be people trying to get every last bit out of their vape thinking smoke = nicotine/thc. Younger people are more likely to do this I believe
Cadmium naturally occurs with silver which is used as a solder. It is possible to get cadmium free silver but it costs more
Cadmium doesnt naturally occur in teddy bear fabric noses. Also manufacturing stuffed animals shouldn’t involve soldering. China is known for doing shady things like this. It isn’t generally made knowledgeable to the public since certain things are better left unsaid(in the eyes of big corporations)
This is a good NBC news video just out. It tours vape battery and cart makers in China. The story goes over Juu suing 30 Chinese companies last year for counterfeiting and IP theft, and talks about a report from Chinese gov about how low quality batteries and hazardous substances are not uncommon in low cost products:
I’ll go for door #3
I’m gunna say it’s the flower producers, not government and tobacco. The flower producers are the ones losing market share to carts.
The hippies did it.
Ehhh… I’m not so sure that matters.
“Concentrations of the metals, such as lead, in the aerosols increased with more voltage,” Williams said. “Concentrations of some elements—chromium, lead, and nickel—were high enough to be a health concern. We found the concentrations of chromium, copper, lead, nickel, and zinc exceeded the proposed permissible exposure limit from the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.”
Edit: The boiling point of lead is 3180 F or 1749 C. Although the melting point is much lower, 327.5 C. Chromium has a mp of 1907 C.
Others may not be grateful, but I am. Thank you for taking the time to make a clean and organized post. I think it only adds to the discussion! 