LOL. I just can’t win. If I had replied to each person in a new post for each response someone would accuse me of trying to up my post count. I followed the site rules, take it up with the forum owners?
if you’re a cutter, no you fucking can’t win
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so the only thing we are allowed to discuss in this thread is the likelyhood of vitamin E acetate causing lipoid pneumonia as the primary problem? I don’t think you understand the nature of scientific discourse. looking inside the box will only tell you if the cat is dead.
given the histology, we know the issue isn’t “drowing in lipids”.
where do you expect the thread to go from there?
the term is “cut” not “cutters”, cutters are those that cut. they are part of the problem. whether or not the cut they used is causing the current health crisis.
you don’t appear to know enough about chemistry or physiology to understand the responses you’re getting. Or what the Mayo clinic and CDC are saying. I’ve read everything I can find, and watched the interviews… or do you think I asked the all knowing one about “mayo VAPI” just so I could point at mayonnaise and laugh?
the sarcasm seems to have gotten your attention. it’s clearly nonsense to suggest that huffing mayonnaise is a good idea. You get that the problem isn’t lipid pneumonia, and then seem to rule out anything you think might be an oil.
that’s not what the experts are saying. they’re saying they don’t know.
why does only huffing nicotine rule out vitamin E acetate? because the folks diluting nicotine salts at home wouldn’t dream of using an off the shelf vape diluent? simply because it was marketed for cutting cannabinoid based carts?
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Huffing your meds is dumb. and provably unsafe. if you want safe, stick it up your arse.
isn’t that the trend the current data shows? (trend. not cause.)
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maybe this is the smoking gun we’re looking for?
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I agree about scientific discourse, but many people, and I would daresay yourself, are trying to derail this thread, even if not on purpose. In most cases it’s not scientific discourse, it’s just degrading and off-topic posts.
Just start a new thread to talk about all of the issues around VAPI, is that really so hard? I even invite you to post a link to your thread in this thread, and I promise I will respond to your thread (in a polite and constructive way).
Because people have very short attention spans and forget things pretty quickly, it’s important to stay on topic considering this is a brand new factor (the Mayo Clinic study). If you want to start a thread about VAPI generally, and what may and may not be causing it, please do.
Seriously? That’s what I mean by non-constructive posts. What the heck does “cut” vs “cutters” have to do with anything? Hint: it doesn’t. Are you also going to jump on me for grammatical errors?
This is just like your comment about “Mayo VAPI” google search, totally unnecessary and unhelpful in any way, shape or form. If you want to talk about “cutters” make a new thread, it will fit in well with the countless other threads on the same topic.
I have no idea what you’re doing or why you’re doing it. But for the most part you’re not adding anything constructive or helpful, and you’re definitely NOT having a scientific discourse (unless that means trying to attack my character and knowledge).
You tried to pull the same thing in an earlier post, where you tried to make fun of my use of the word “study”, until you realized the Mayo Clinic called it a study, and you had to backtrack.
That is not the case at all. You may want to reread this thread. What the Mayo Clinic has ruled out is lipoid pneumonia caused VAPI, and that vit E covers lungs in oil. Also, I have pointed out that Dr. Larson himself, the guy who is saying it’s chemical damage, says he’s “skeptical” its vit E at all.
And your scarcasm isn’t welcome or helpful.
No, that’s not accurate, but it’s close. You’ve almost got it. You may want to re-read this thread.
I’m not going to go over this again. You may want to re-read the thread. Speically this post: Researchers Say Vitamin E Likely Isn’t the Culprit in Vaping-Related Ailments - #93 by anon87263109
Now there’s the helpful post and attitude. Is that how you do science?
No, it’s not. Didn’t you read the chart you posted? And didn’t you read the background for the chart? The CDC themselves said last Thursday that cases are increasing at a high rate, over 275 just last week (that’s a 34.2% increase in cases in just one week). Researchers don’t expect them to slow down any time soon. Really, you should start reading more and posting less.
CDC last Thursday:
But what we’ve seen is this increase in cases in terms of the epidemic curve that we have, it’s really June/July where we start to see a lot of cases. There are just a handful in the March/April/May time line compared to what we started to see June/July and of course in August. There is probably some recognition bias in terms of the summer because we have been raising the alarm on this. But you know there – there’s probably been isolated cases for much longer than going back. But I refer you to the website for that curve.
“What we see with these vaping cases is a kind of severe chemical injury I’ve never seen before in a tobacco smoker or a traditional marijuana smoker, but I think we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg,” said Dr. Larson.
Brother…not sure what your dog is in this fight but it’s not what you’re saying…come clean and stop hiding behind TLDR posts…its entertaintaining but I threw up in my mouth multiple times…
I’m reposting because this thread is lame. An industry review of what’s going on from yesterday has 4 clicks. One of which was mine. Nobody cares about the facts they are busy slinging opinions.
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I hope people are looking into issues originating from the hardware too.
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I was also one of those four clicks. And I thank you for adding to the discussion in a real way. The same reason I appreciate MagisterChemist, and a few others like WolfeXtracts, THChemist, and others.
I read all links people post in this thread. I am sorry so few other people read it. Most people don’t read things, they just post their opinions sans facts. I feel the same about some of what I’ve posted, lots of people just ignoring the content for their own opinions without thinking first.
Sorry you think this thread is lame, but I would argue it’s not completely lame. Because it adds a lot to the overall discussion, even with some trolls lol. Before I posted this thread most people still thought vit E acetate was the cause by coating lungs in oil, and there were people yelling about vit E like their hair was on fire.
I had already read your link before you posted it, that’s why I didn’t comment on it. As well as I read most of the studies and sources cited. I linked to many of the same sources over the past month.
I think the article was well written and informative, except for some of the unsubstantiated claims like the following:
One source of the black market problem is that California requires testing of final finished cannabis products, Wise says. If a product fails the test, more often than not, it doesn’t get thrown away. Instead, it enters California’s black market and is then distributed to states where cannabis is illegal, she says.
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ive been telling em about that silicone bro. its time to diy the vape industry
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From what I’ve read they are. But the vast majority of the focus is on what is being vaped, and what happens when it’s vaped, not how it’s being vaped.
Everyone has an agenda.
The cannabis industry would like to see the black market problem addressed at the federal level. “If it is confirmed that Americans are being hurt because of unregulated, illicit market cannabis vape products, it is yet another reason for real, comprehensive federal cannabis reform that will allow the regulated, tested cannabis industry to displace illicit market actors,” says an Oct. 3 letter from the National Cannabis Industry Association to congressional leaders.
Laws don’t fix the problem. And no one really cares that products that kill people are legal.
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I appreciate the thoughtful response. I hate that everyone has an angle. They don’t know. The real common variables are only local at this point. It’s a real problem and rushing to prove you aren’t it, isn’t helping. As those numbers of cases and deaths rise, it hurts everyone. It just needs to be treated seriously if vaping liquid is going to survive. The “juuling” in high schools alone may be the end of the segment. When these type of things happen, we have to be objective and solve the problem
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Dont forget the opioid epidemic. You can thank big pharma and the gov for that mess!
Laws 100% stop some of the problems.
Thats the point. If you want to die wearing a batman costume with a belt around your neck. Thats legal? Personal choices. Wasn’t there an informative debate with @BG305 and @Akoyeh that its a personal choice?
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Whats the chances of something like this ending up in a cart?
If you don’t see how cutting agents are relevant to the discussion, I’m not sure you’ve looked at the problem hard enough.
Imo the best fit for the current data involves a new cutting agent and defective hardware (hence the hand gun styled vape mod).
But I’m not an epidemiologist & the primary data has not actually been released, so that “best guess” is just that.
Using the agreed upon terminology is almost always helpful when trying to communicate in groups.
Will I hold grammar against you? Not intentionally. If it’s truly atrocious I might not take you seriously, but I don’t believe I’d be alone in that.
You have been mistaken for MrExtractor, do you understand why?
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Accidentally?
In black market carts?
Nationwide?
Sure; homies set up base in an abandoned missile silo…found some clear, odorless oil lying around, and decided it would increase their profits…
Somehow they didn’t kill themselves mixing it into their distillate, and nobody tried the stuff before sending it to market…
Yeah no. That would require malice.
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Of course I see how many different diluents (including terpenes) are relevant to the discussion, but they don’t have to be discussed in this thread. My point was your pedantic issue of “cut” vs. “cutter” was ridiculous, as was your pedantic issue “study”.
I agree that VAPI may have to do with diluents, battery temperatures, and any host of things, like a bad batch of disty, flavors, unknown chemicals (synthetic cannabinoids?), etc, etc, etc
No. And even I was MrExtractor it shoudn’t matter. It’s the message that matters, not the messenger.
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It’s because all you do is defend cutting agents.
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