I’ve seen a couple posts on here about this but haven’t seen anything definitive so I wanted to bring it up again. Does anyone know how to get rid of this red ring that forms on the tops of jars/carts within a couple days to a couple weeks of distillation? I have implemented vacuum sealing our jars immediately after distillation and putting rubber stoppers on the top and bottom of the cartridges and this seems to delay the red coloration but not stop it. I’d like to come up with a permanent solution rather than a temporary delay.
I just had a dispensary reject an order because they think we’re not mixing our terpenes in well enough… I know this isn’t true and I believe what we’re looking at is oxidization of cannabanoids but I can’t prove it, and I don’t like throwing out information like it’s fact when I don’t know for sure that it is.
I’ve seen a few suggestions (citric acid in boiling flask, B-12 mixed in post-distillation, etc.) but haven’t seen any follow-up on the effectiveness of said suggestions. Has anyone conquered this red P.O.S. ? Any help would be much appreciated. Where my #GLG members at?!
When you pour out of your boiling flask to a storage bottle you can use argon to displace o2 in the bottle and sheild the pour. Same goes for when you mix vape juice. You don’t want any included o2 if you can help it.
This is definitely a good suggestion. Have you found that this will hold off color change in the cartridge? I’m open to techniques like this to delay the color change but I would love to find a more permanent solution such as an antioxidant. I have seen someone suggest citric acid in the boiling flask on a thread here (can’t remember who suggested it). I am intrigued by this idea, but don’t want to cause any unwanted, or worse unpredictable isomerization. I will definitely look into the argon idea though. What does the equipment look like for this? Thanks for the help.
@sidco Hey, thanks! I haven’t PH’d my solution after washing before, but I always end with 2 neutral washes. Do you have any tips on that? do I just stick a PH strip in the solution? So far I’ve seen little to no color change with a vacuum in the jar. My worry is that the change/degradation will happen while it sits on the shelf at the dispensary. I haven’t seen anything but educated guesses either so I figured I’d bring the topic up again. I guess it comes with the territory when we’re pushing a new industry forward! I’m thinking of doing a couple small batch runs and including an antioxidant such as citric acid in the boiling flask and see what happens. I would hope that since we only distill fully decarbed oil that the chances of isomerization would be minimal but who knows… @Future What do you think homie?
@soxhlet The system sits at a consistent 150 microns… Still can’t get the main body to pop until 240-250 C though. After @sidco 's response I’m wondering if the heat could have something to do with it. People talk about hitting main body at 160 C but I can’t figure it out.
@soxhlet Any tips on how to bring that temp down? I was running at 1000ish microns for a long time and through the use of some better Keck clips and MUCH better vacuum grease I’ve gotten it down to 150. I thought the drop in Vac would lower my boiling temps but I haven’t seen any change at all.
To achieve the best vacuum, you must have a leak free apperatus, the lowers must be completly removed, the pump should be in good condition and it’s oil fresh. Can I ask you what the best vaccum you can achieve with the sensor mounted directly to the pump? How does this compare with the empty assembled apperatus under vaccum ? Do you test for leaks with He?
@Soxhlet I’ve got an Edwards 28. It’s roughly 2 years old and I definitely didn’t know to change the oil as often as I should in the beginning, but have done regular and often changes for the last year or so. I’ve never pulled a Vac on just the sensor before but I have pulled Vac on the empty system and it sits around 150 microns with material or not. I’ve never heard of testing leaks with He. What does that look like process wise? If you don’t mind sharing… also, what are you referring to when you say lowers? Appreciate the attention to the thread btw. I’ve been lurking this forum for a long time, since I met @Future really. So glad to see how awesome this community is when you participate lol
The natural solution is the inclusion of the plant waxes in the product if those compounds can be captured without degredation. I posted a post that shows an extreme version of wax inclusion in a way because it used so much plant wax in contrast to likely how much is really needed. I have tested this and it seems to hold off the red oxidation that happens with the cannabinoids.
Here is an example of the compound and the waxes side by side with the waxes yet to be harvested from the cold finger.
Here is the same stuff now being mixed in. The waxes sit on top of a layer of THC that accumulates before waxes when being driven up to the cold finger so stirring back in the white wax also stirred in a lot of THC.
Now here is the compound overnight after a vac chamber run. The compound is barely tacky to the touch and clear but now opaque instead of gem like. I have found that this compound lasts a long time when exposed to air and left out.
There is a tart sort of flavor detectable to me but otherwise it is still very high potency. It would of course test as a lower percentage in a lab test. On the other hand it is 100% natural and I have a hunch you might know where to find some wax… lolz. So,the advantage here is you know plant waxes are proven safe because folks use them all the time to vape. The same cannot be said for some other solutions. I would likely not even disclose the technique per se other than the fact you left natural anti oxidants in the material to prevent the natural aging of the compound into red indicating CBN formation (not an altogether bad thing for some. A little red makes this stuff delightful to me if just very little).
This may not be a solution for your customers of course but that speaks to marketing. Most folks I know would never ever know the difference between that clear dab above and the dab below unless I explained it. Good luck. I have posted this before but messed it up so a few of the pictures are repeats.
Heluim is used to leak test because of it’s small molecular size, just get some helium from a party supply store and connect a hose to the tank. Purge the air from the hose with He, then gently blow He over each joint one by one . Look at the vacuum guage, when it drops it means that a leak sucked some He. When I said “lowers” I meant “lower boiling components than cannabinoids”. Anything lighter than a cannabinoid=vapor pressure you don’t want. That’s why stripping the crude and proper decarb are the two most impotent steps when preparing crude besides winterization. Let’s see what yur pump can do with just the sensor. If the pump cant go under the limbo stick with that test consider replacing it.
I’ve been experimenting adding waxes. Small amounts seem to work too. I think this is the most elegant solution to the problem. It doesn’t contain anything non cannibis derrived for the hippies out there.
My most recent lab leads me to believe other components we normally remove also will do this. One lab is just one lab but I believe there is a big refinement possible to the technique in general. One lab has presented to me evidence that other much lighter compounds can also slow the degredation big time. If I repeat this a few times then I will run a video. I like doing vids and hope one day The Academy can see past their bigoted views on blockbuster iPad productions. We all have dreams…
I think adding wax is the correct concept but then again… define precisely the term “wax” right? @Soxhlet as always I appreciate your contribution style. A positive blog of any kind in this age will be a challenge to pull off hehe but you make it easier I am sure. Let’s not talk about me here though…
@Beaker This is precisely the type of solution I’ve been searching for. I never even considered looking for a solution within the plant itself! How do you get your waxes SO clean though? Is that wax out of the distillation system or from filtering/winterization or neither? I have to agree with @Soxhlet, this is definitely the most elegant solution I’ve seen.
@Soxhlet Thanks for the tip. Definitely going to go grab a tank of He and test it out!
