Because of the opioid blocking effects of Mitragynine, to get a strong opioid effect, that ratio of regular extract needs to change drastically. How hard would it be to isolate 7ohm? Or, i guess you could degrade the Mitragynine somehow? The problem, or benefit, of extract and kratom in general, is that there’s this ceiling effect. That ceiling is Mitragynine. Presumably why leaf is considered the most opioid, it simply has a more manageable/efficient level of Mitragynine to allow for the conversion and the uptake of effects. They found that lab rats never felt the effects of heroin or morphine when given high dose of mitragynine.
Here’s an article that cites the study that converted the Mitragynine into 7ohm. I think it was in a solution of rose bengal that was exposed to sun. it was this researcher who postulated that photooxidation might be occuring inside the leaf. Recreational Drug Kratom Hits the Same Brain Receptors as Strong Opioids - Scientific American
That is not at all what AA is in my experience, which I can only comment on. 12 step groups are about addressing the underlying issues that caused the substance abuse to begin with. If I do not address those issues, then I will replace instead of repair. The opiate replacement therapy drugs are replacing addiction with addiction. AA and other 12 step groups are about growing and learning about who I am inside, and why I exhibit destructive and unhealthy behaviors. The problem is that once I have been using a substance for so long to cope with the discomfort of reality, I no longer possess:
A. the ability to enjoy life without the use of drugs and
B. possess the belief that it it actually possible
I owe my life to a 12 step fellowship because they were there when I was at my worst, and they are there when I’m at my best. I would 100% be dead if weren’t for people that told me I would be ok and I wasn’t a piece of shit. In other words, I was a sick person trying to get well, not a bad person trying to get good. Listening to other people share about how they have suffered through the same shit but were able to overcome it without suboxone or some other unhealthy obsession has a very therapeutic effect. I really did think I was fucked for life. Can’t be at meetings 24 hours a day, so it’s not really a filling time thing, and the people that I built relationships with are some of the most amazing and successful people I have ever met. There is a common misconception that 12 step groups are just a bunch of people sitting in a church basement miserable because they can’t get high, but in reality, it was the opportunity to see the world in a more beautiful light that I didn’t need to put a filter over to enjoy. My 2 cents!
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@nostrum I apologize if I came off as flippant. I’m grateful that it works. Thank you for your perspective.
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no no its all good I knew you weren’t my bad if I seemed defensive
an additional hydroxyl group might bring about a notable difference in affinity to a suitable stationary phase in chromatography. that’s not cheap to accomplish for sure though.
Whats considered the strongest most calming sedative strain of kratom I’ve heard red bali and red mang da
Anything marketed as a red strain, name is based on location or some other unique type. I personally recommend anything marketed as Maeng Da. If you are looking for euphoria go with anything marketed as a green over a red but red is more sedating/relaxing, more body effect then mental effects such as euphoria but often more nauseating. Maeng Da can have different meanings depending on the farmer/harvester.
There are no “strains” of Kratom. What they really are is different drying and fermentation methods which gives them the unique color and the alkaloid profile changes depending on the method. The strains thing was invented by marketers in the early 2000s that has just stuck. Officially there is only 1 formally labeled strain of Kratom known as Rifat which was the first live plant formally brought into USA from Thailand by Claude Rifat and 2 other unofficial strains which origins cannot be traced being Bumblebee which appeared in the early 2000s and is marketed as being from the seeds of a Vietnam Kratom plant and Pink Indo which appeared in the early 2010s but it’s my personal opinion from research that they are simply Indonesian live plants or seeds that where snuck in. It’s difficult but not impossible to grow Kratom from seed, like coca and a few others the seed becomes less viable as time goes on with early marketers claiming a seed won’t last past 48 hours but that is untrue. There does appear to be some slight physical differences between Rifat and Bumblebee and Pink with Bumblebee being more sensitive to turning yellow and being more bushy while Rifat will usually be more “stable” but can develop unique leaf shapes from skinny long to “horned” which is when the leaves start to have ribs/dips/curves on the sides which some people claim to harvest specifically but this is also unlikely because it would be much more expensive to do but often is sold at the same wholesale price.
All commercial Kratom comes from overseas where they do not recognize any strains of Kratom, it is all 1 plant and all sourced from Indonesia but the fermentation and drying processes really does yield a unique alkaloid profile but people claiming to have Thai or Malaysian are believing the word of a farmer in Indo claiming to have imported it from there but in Malay and Thai people can be sentenced to death for growing Kratom although Thai recently legalized “Medical Kratom” so perhaps that will change. All Kratom even costs the same, getting Green Maeng Da or Red Bali is the same price but often gets marketed at different prices. Most “farmers” do not own a farm or even grow Kratom but collect it from the wild, it grows like dandy lions do here, it’s on the sides of the road with trees as big as mature pine trees in some places. Although I have seen many farmers who do own land and do grow Kratom on it but usually this is just because they like it and want to keep it around while primarily harvesting from the wild.
People will lie and say the “strain” is decided by the vein color or leaf color but this is not true although when early growing Kratom can change color and when mature can become a greenish yellow color but that is due to plant health problems in my personal experience. It probably does have a slightly different alkaloid profile as well but 100% the color thing is decided by drying and fermentation methods and not the color of the leaf. There are alot of other unique marketing terms which some do have honest history but ever since the boom of 2014 has developed into mostly bullshit.
There is a group of USA Kratom grower enthusiasts who have been documenting many different effects of fermentation and drying with interesting results. The whole strain thing is very disappointing because creating Kratom strains is probably possible with effort but due to mis-information has never been done but possibly has been in the wild. There are different Mitragyna plants and I have hypothesized that a hybrid with Uncaria (cats claw) could be possible but it would likely result in a plant weaker than Kratom but more in line with sedating/relaxing. But the main problem is getting a Kratom plant to flower is very very hard and there is no method for doing it.
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Yeah Kratom usually averages at about 1% Mitragynine in the leaf with barely any or <0.01% 7-OHM but there are over 40+ different alkaloids in Kratom which contribute to it’s overall effect. Some stereoisomers of Mitragynine get mistaken for Mitragynine itself during lab tests such as Speciogynine, Speciociliatine, Mitraciliatine, Paynatheine and Cornynatheidine.
Kratom has multiple other alkaloids some of which are found in some other plants with the most common being Cats Claw which is known for it’s anti-inflammatory and muscle relaxing action, some of which is attributed to Mitraphylline but is likely a unique alkaloid profile itself as well. Similar to the multiple Cannabinoids in Cannabis that contribute to the overall effect of the strain, Kratoms alkaloid profile which can be modified by fermenting or drying contributes to the overall effect of that batch.
There is a company that was able to extract what appears to be Mitragynine (but is likely made up of stereoisomers above) up to a claimed 92% purity but with lower levels of 7-OH and another with a claimed 45% Mitragynine with about 1.25% of 7-OH which is the most popular and has been formulated into many different commercial products. I have not heard of a 7-OH isolate nor any common methods of conversion and same for Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl and various others.
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I’ve actually seen it as high as 6%. The Kratom consumer protection act limits it at 2%. That’s a lot. a gram of extract would be like 200mgs. there’s a study that scores it 14 times the strength of morphine on mu activity, a more recent one says 1/8 th. Morphine is prescribed in 1 mg increments, i think.
crazy how info travels on the internet. are you getting your info from a group or doublem?
entourage effect has been postulated as to how it might affect the conversion of mitragynine into 7ohm, but the main 2 seem to be 7ohm and mit. the others aren’t really psychoactive (or known to be). they’re also found in such small amounts that some researchers think that it might not contribute much.
a recent cns panel on rats actually quantified the affinities to which mitragynine binds to various receptors in the brain. it verified what we suspected all along.
serotonin
dopamine
adrenergic (how clonidine works to preven w/d)
adenosine (how caffeine works)
A jaunt down the list of the alkaloids will shwo nothing notable. smooth muscle relaxers in tiny amounts. some opioid agonists and antognists, antiviral, immunostimulant, etc…Mitragynine composes up to 60% of total alkaloids found.
If you look at studies of leaf from various parts of asia the alkaloid profiles do differ slightly, mainly in the mitrgynine levels. Malaysian kratom had low to no mitragynine. so, that is one effecgt of strain possibly. it wold be mainly the other alkaloids minus the main one which is both the opioid and stimulant (psychostimulant at that).
The law in thailand was that you cannot cultivate or posses the plant leaf. It does grow in the wild and old growth trees are protected by law there. the reason they consume fresh leaves is that 's the natural way to do it in rural areas where it grows n the wild. It is now decriminalized there, but you can’t just do with it what you want. you need permits etc. nobody’s selling it openly on facebook and haven’t in years. There is one guy in rural malaysia right on the border of thailand that grows and sells it. He’ll send you a screenshot of where he is on a phone’s gps. Unfortunately, he jacked me for a few k. It’s all just as good since you had to sit on his stuff for months to let the microbes die. e coli is very real. It’s funny I just called some people out for claiming that they had authentic malaysian when their grind is super fine. I didn’t think it was much different, honestly. I still have some.
Strains are just blends of leaf dried in different ways. the whole strain paradigm was something americans made up to explain why there were so many effects from it. what it couldn’t explain was why it was different to some people. it turns out all that matters really is one alkaloid and dosing entirely effects the experience.
where we fucked up.
we all take the exact same dose and as effects differ, we attribute it to genetics, just like cannabis. nobody culitvates anything like they do with cannabis. there is nothing like it. what’s ifferent about all these strains essentially is theh level of mitragynine. It does all come from one tree. there’s even a study that shows the only difference in drying methods was mit. shade dried has teh highest.
they estimate that 6% of the mit gets converted in the body. but it’s not that simple. the cyp enzyme is most abundant in the liver. so as mitragynine gets cleared out of the blood, some of it is getting converted to 7ohm and getting put back in the blood. Mitragynine, then in turn inhibits this enzyme, which is also responsible for clearing most drugs out of the blood. Then, the most interesting finding is that high concnetrations of mit, completely block effects of all opioids.
Indonesia is not the only place to get kratom. I thought it made a difference. The science, and my experiences say otherwise. a big part of kratom is placebo. a huge part of it. the subculture that’s developed around it is an amazing, conspiracy theory like phenoenon.
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they’re not accredited. there are a bunch of gmp food labs doing it now. sante lalbs does a 7 alkaloid panel for 200. other alaklaoids are useless imo. any cannabis lab will do microbials. they’ve been accused by many of inflating the numbers.
There is no way anybody is doing that. Some stuff, and it’s random, clearly has some higher levels of 7ohm. Nobody can explain how it happens. Think about what an indonesiaan would have to do: find a lab to make him 7ohm isolate, which is probably pretty entailed. then he’s going to charge the rock bottom price of regular kratom in hopes of getting a competetive edge? is that economical to do? then, the isolate would have to be mixed in evenly enough with the powder as to not get hot spots and possibly kill someone.
kratom has a ceiling effect, and that ceiliing is mitragynine. you could have a ton of 7ohm in the leaf or extract, but you won’t feel a lick of it as lonlg as it accompanies that high level of mit. a recent study shono ewed that there was ffect of morphine or heroin on rats when given high mit.
Don’t argue with me, argue with the authors of the paper I posted.
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Anyone offer kratom oil？DM pls，will bridge an opportunity.
I find 75% red with 25% green does the trick for sedative.
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Is this extract or leonardite?
Extract, it’s only 10% mit 17% total alkaloids it makes a better capsule than the 65% extract. I don’t want to use the term full spectrum because it’s not, it’s crude and the crude seems better.
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What solvent did you use to extract?
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Defeated with hexane, extracted with DCM.
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