Kratom

Ground Up
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So, a few guys have mentioned here and there about Kratom and I find it kind of interesting.

I’ve read a few things about different strains, risks, etc. I thought about trying to kick up a discussion on what people think and where they stand on this substance for things like pain and anxiety from our community.

I’m in a lot of constant pain, and if kratom is the answer I’m all for it, but not at the risk of my mind, body, and future.

Any thoughts from anyone whose big into the kratom scene?

@Renchi @Krative @Cryo13 @ExTek90 @cyclopath @Dred_pirate @Photon_noir

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I’ve had several lengthy streaks with it, I have persistent anxiety, and was in regular lower back pain for a long time. My preference was always the Maeng Da strains because they were always more potent than the others, which meant I didn’t have to consume as much plant matter. Green or yellow vein during the day, red at night, works wonders for anxiety and pain.

My only issue with it, and why I don’t take it regularly, is that it gives me constipation. It was a fantastic tool for me to get much deeper into my yogic practice, which is what eventually alleviated my back pain. I’ve had to find other ways to manage my anxiety, sucks because the green worked SO well. I would recommend using it on the short term, just like any other opioid, and try to find a better way to alleviate the pain.

Extracts of it can be scary, they can definitely be overdosed on. 7-hydroxy-mitrigynine which is one of the active compounds is something like 15x stronger than morphine. I’ve been wanting to experiment with different solvents to try and get something that doesn’t leave me constipated.

Despite all of this, I always keep several ounces of it in my cupboard, just in case. Helps ease cold symptoms when I’m sick.

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I have to agree with @ExTek90

I use capsules, I never exceed 2 at a time, and if I
havent taken it in a while I’ll start with 1 or it makes me feel icky…

I dont suffer from constipation due to it.

White indo is okay.
Maeng da is the go to, my friends and i agree on that.

all the other strains seem to cause more of a dependance issue, make me sleepy, and also make me kinda cranky, the other side effect of most red strains and various strains in general for me is also nausea.

Its great for pain, i think individualism plays a role in the color of choice between green, and white for daytime, I personally avoid reds and just dont take any 6 hours prior to bedtime…

Edit: dont take on an empty stomach, ive had some seriously bad gut aches I can confirm its from taking it before lunch and not eating until later…

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I am aware of it being able to cause constipation, but i haven’t used it that much to get to that point. I use the maeng da with the Bali and it’s helped with my pain. It works on the same receptors as opium does, but instead of opening the flood gates to release all the juice it allows for a slower release which i feel doesn’t give you any dependency on it. At least not for me. But use it with caution for sure.

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There are many far better options for pain. Curcumin, 1:1 CBD:THC w/ terpineol, and agmatine to name a few

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Interesting… I don’t normally get constipated from it, and I assumed the irregular irregularity was just due to all the damn fiber I’ve been eating from kratom powder! :sweat_smile:

I am on a pretty consistent high dose for pain, and there has been no development of tolerance to the pain relieving qualities, which is completely awesome in my book!

My fibromyalgia responds well to about 7-12g taken 3 times per day. The pain, depression, and anxiety all vary, though, so sometimes that dose is taken up to 5 times in a day.

Whatever the colors actually mean…
That is to say, I’ve heard from all levels of source credibility, everything from leaf color from different climate conditions (it’s basically an evergreen, so not seasons), to just plain fresh leaf color (harder to believe), to leaf vein color, to drying or actual fermentation treatments of the leaves to obtain the different colors…
So, fwiw, the greens and whites seem to be best for daytime, and red/brown (or purple?) seems best for nighttime, in general, but I find it difficult to get decent pain relief from most red/brown types. Finding an effectively pain-relieving source of nighttime kratom for me has been a quest fraught with trial and error.

Some also claim that the age of the trees makes a difference, and therefore older stands from different islands are more prized than younger stands, but who knows what one actually gets… kinda like pot “strains”, especially when buying concentrates, ya know?

I have found that lower doses are better for sleepy time, and higher doses are better for waking times… but this is opposite the “common” understanding of the dose/activity relationship, apparently. I guess for most folks, it’s the other way around.

Extracts:
A bit of experience with the water based extract from Indonesia (although legally that is not supposed to be exported for some reason). It is quite strongly stoning, and far more easy to “overdose”… for me, resulting in very loudly snoring sleep, according to my girlfriend who of course was made aware of the situation to keep watch! Keep in mind my usual dose is 7 to 12 times the recommended daily amount per dose (I have had a very “hard head” to kratom, from the very get-go.), so be VERY careful with ANY extracts of kratom!

A word of WARNING
One day, in the time I was still stepping off of Tramadol, after taking a normal kratom dose in the morning, I forgot my noon dose, so just waited until about 3 or 4pm and took my old dose of Tramadol. I had done this on prior days with no real ill effects, but that particular day, I apparently had a series of full-on convulsive catatonic seizures!
Scary to say the least, so a week or two after that, when I had my brain back, I dove into research and started asking some very hard questions. Come to find out that kratom may have an inhibitory effect on the liver enzymes responsible for metabolizing Tramadol. It’s not confirmed, exactly, but it is the most likely culprit I could find for the onset of seizure.
If you don’t already know, Tramadol is known to lower the seizure threshold in some patients on its own… and although I had never experienced anything like that in over 5 years taking Tramadol, it happened within just a week of having been taking kratom (morning) and Tramadol (evening)! The adverse affect was apparently cumulative!
So please DO NOT MIX kratom with any opioids or other meds that have α2 and opioid combined receptor activities!

All that said, I have metabolic mutations that affect my body’s processing and therefore efficacy and danger of many types of drugs. Namely MTHFR, TT allele.
Also, with high functioning autism spectrum disorder, my brain is wired differently than those of “neurotypical” folks.

As always, ymmv!

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Do you have a reliable online vendor you could recommend? I’ve always sourced mine from a local herbal imports store, everything in the store was grown on the owner’s family’s organic farm in Peru, since I’ll be moving eventually I was going to start researching a new source.

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Nice place Some pain reliëf recepice
I have a tennis arm thats killing me would like to find a natural pain killer :grinning:

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Probably www.happyhippoherbals.com if you want to see test results and get high quality kratom powders.

The original poster here sells kratom products, too, and he carries extracts. The website is hard to navigate, and one often cannot tell what one is actually ordering… no units on quantities, for example. However, you can hit him up and his brand is iKratom, which is sold locally in some stores.

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Wouldn’t the op be me on this thread?

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Anybody using on a regular should look into “psyllium husks”. I take a tablespoon a day and it works wonders for the constipation that kratom can cause sometimes. My other word of advice would be to take a few day breaks here and there, to keep your tolerance/dependency in check. Its easy to take breaks in the beginning, but after longer periods of daily use, its not so easy. That being said, kratom is wonderful. I would recommend it to any one of my friends or loved ones. With an emphasis on taking periodic breaks. There is large active communities on reddit as well, if anybody wants to find more info. There is also a quitting kratom subreddit for anybody looking to quit.

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As someone who has studied 7OH-Mitragynine and Mitragynine in depth I will chime in here:

Our team has travelled to Sumatra to secure our sources for Kratom and to study the plant in its native environment. I can confirm that you are correct on a few points.

1.) There is no such thing as “strains” of Kratom. It all comes from the same plant. The colors come from different climates and curing/processing methodologies.

2.) The older the tree, the more Mitragynine.

7OH-Mitragynine is an oxidative byproduct of Mitragynine. In the presence if singlet oxygen Mitragynine oxidizes to 7OHM readily. Mitragynine itself is not psychoactive, only 7OHM is. The reason Kratom is so safe is that there is a metabolic ceiling in the liver that prevents over-conversion of Mitragynine to 7OHM (see link below). Unfortunately the constipation side effect is unable to be remedied and is due to its opioid receptor affinity although Kratom exibits way less GI blockage effects than Morphine. 7OHM is relatively safe. In sanctioned laboratory mouse studies, wild-type mice can overdose easily on 7OHM, yet in opioid-receptor knockout mice there are reports of groups with an average weight of 29gms surviving 1mg doses of 7OHM (meaning aside from the receptor affinities, 7OHM is relatively non-toxic).

I truly believe that indolic tryptamine painkillers might be the future of pain management medicine. You might also be interested in studying Akuamma Seeds and Galbulimima belgraveana, as they exhibit interesting properties and similar molecular structures.

Also of note: the Sumatrans make a tea with kratom and then ferment it like a kombucha. They claim it increases potency. This could be due to some type of fermentation-oxidation reaction taking place. Idk.

Here is a very interesting read:

Enjoy!

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I definitely did! Wow! THANK YOU! :pray:

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I don’t see this mentioned often, but turns out it’s extremely good for menstrual cramps. I suggested it for my girlfriend a few years ago after my sister reported having really good luck with it, and she’s used it exclusively for her sometimes debilitating cramps since. She was taking 800mg ibuprofen several times a day before and still had to sometimes call into work. She doesn’t react well to THC and can’t function at work while high, so for her this was a godsend.

As a side note, does anyone know the specific reason why nicotine combined with Kratom causes such awful nausea? I’ve had the misfortune of experiencing it myself, and I have yet to meet anyone who can combine the two and not get sick.

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i have no issue with nicotine + kratom nausea whatsoever

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I’ll get naseaus if I don’t measure my dose sometimes, and a cigarette will really make it worse. I’ve had to throw up a couple times, but felt fine shortly after. I smoke way too many cigarettes, close to a pack a day, and probably too much kratom too. I’ll take a spoonful 3 times a day, probably 3-5g usually. I’d recommend trying not to build so much of a tolerance, I had really awesome effects on it when I first started. It was even better than smoking a joint sometimes. I haven’t been diagnosed, but I wake up most mornings with panic attacks and neck and back pain. For me it’s an effective everyday pain reliever and anxiety reducer. I was getting it from happyhippo for a while, they’re expensive and I don’t think the quality is that much different than lesser priced product. Seems like all the strain s work, but may be better to switch it up. I got my last kilo from organickeatomusa for less than$100.

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possibly there is a diff between pure nicotine vs tobacco with nausea

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Maybe MAOIs in tobacco are having an effect. Has anyone taken an maoi with kratom? This is something I’ve been curious about.

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My experiences were with vape, nicotine pouches (zyn), and Copenhagen. My girlfriend’s experience was with vape, and others who have complained about that were with cigarettes and vape. So I think it’s more the nicotine, but I noticed tobacco was significantly worse than tobacco-free nicotine, so it could be a combination. I used to get my Kratom from SoCal herbal remedies, but it seems they stopped carrying it, so I went back to kraken. Kraken is definitely more pricey than other vendors I’ve found, but they’re also more consistent in their quality and potency.

I have yet to experiment with concentrates, as I never really took it regularly so I never had a problem with tolerance. But I’d like to start experimenting with the concentrates just because I’m interested in making Kratom concentrates myself.

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Does anyone know if kratom can be extracted with heptane?

Ethanol failed miserably

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