Ethanol Lab Setup Small Scale

Hash and Stuff Extraction
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Ive spent the better part of 6 months piecing together a lab for the goal of making high end concentrates - not distilling.

rotovap and auxiliary equipment are taken care of,
i found a 6kg panda for a steal of a deal recently, and as well found a -86C 40gal freezer in perfect condition that was practically given away.

im trying to work out the details for resonance times and temps and the practicality of it all.

I’ll spell out my proposed SOP and let you pick it apart.

1)1 kilo of biomass in 100 micron bier filter bags is placed in an 18L bucket with lid over night at room temperature with x amount of silica gel to desicate remaining water content.
2)removing silica gel, biomass in bucket are placed in freezer over night, with 190 proof ethanol next to it in the freezer
3)8L of ethanol is poured into the bucket without removing either ethanol or work bucket form the freezer
4)x saturation time
5)bucket is removed from freezer and bag of biomass is quickly placed in panda centrifuge where remaining ethanol is drained collected along with the ethanol remaining in saturation bucket.
6)5 Liters of crude solution at a time (remaining is placed in freezer to wait its turn) is filtered through 250mm büchner funnel with 20micron filter paper, and collected before immediately being processed through a 1-3 micron filter paper and finally a celite 545 filter on a fritted disc before going into the Rotovap, while i process the last of the crude/ethanol solution through filters that i placed in the freezer, and then rotovap for it too

my preocupation is with saturation time of ethanol and biomass, and how necesary is agitation of during saturation. My goal is to not have to use active carbon or t5 at all. my goal being, getting efficient yields without techniques that require post processing of coloration

part of why this has been a 6 month adventure is my budget :stuck_out_tongue: jacketed reactors arent much of an option for me.

i do have a (about) 12 liter CLS for butane thats jacketd that ive never used that could also be an option forethanol biomass extraction (i guess a giant steel buchner funnel thats super tall and heavy and jacketed), but id like to avoid using dry ice at all costs.

i appreciate you help and im happy to share data as i get running

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Not to say that you haven’t, but what you need to do is read, read, read, even if you have been. Everything you’re looking for has definitely already been written out in painstaking detail.

If you have questions after reading this linked thread (and maybe a few others about the subject), I’m happy to assist.

The search function is your friend. I suggest trying a few different queries.

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I have done about 6 months of reading:p but ill still read anything you think i might have missed.

The link youve offered me focuses on using dry ice, where as i am preferring to make use of the quite spacious -87 Freezer i have available. the link also doesnt make use of a centrifuge, which i plan on doing.

as i understand, with my temperatures as low at -87, i shouldnt have any issue with avoidinig chlorophyl even with exaggeratedly long saturation times. this being true, I wonder how important more than shaking the buckets for a minute every 15 min over the course of a 1 hour saturation is, and whether there is experience from other who have maintained -87C temperatures through extraction. i actually ask the question in reverse, knowing im wrong but wondering who might help me understand how

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Reading is more than just reading here. There is usually the opportunity to apply parts or aspects (if not the whole) of processes that while in appearance may be different relate directly, nonetheless.

You are correct in that @TheLostBiologist uses dry ice, but that does not change how his process relates to what you are doing. Look at his end results. I assume this is what you are trying to achieve? Please correct me if I am wrong. I have no idea if this is for personal use or the legal market, but my opinions on how it should be done remain the same.

You are also correct about the lack of chlorophyll pulled at -87C. This does not mean that just because you extracted cold it will be the color you want, so I suggested a thread that gives you a very clear outline that also has repeatedly proven results.

While your extraction process may be happening at a more or less ideal temperature, whether you have thoroughly saturated and extracted your biomass is dependent on a number of factors. How was the biomass milled? How fine is the mill? How tightly is it packed in the bag? So many factors all playing off eachother to determine what is or isn’t happening in one’s process.

The circulation or flow of cold ethanol (or solvents in general) has shown itself to be superior at extracting cannabinoids vs stagnant soaking. Agitation speeds up the process and makes it more efficient. Seems lazy, less efficient, and more time consuming to avoid it. Even with agitation and/or good movement of solvent, one’s mill can prevent any solvent penetration if not milled finely enough (or has been milled to super finely and pressed into pellets). You asked about residence times and agitation, and I gave you very clear set of answers with thoughtful discussion that followed. These are loaded questions that have more involved that just the single response you seek.

I can also tell you from experience that both kief and pieces of your milled biomass will be sub 100um and pass freely through your extraction bag. If the tincture gets warm(er), even while filtering, there will be increased pulling of undesirables, not just chlorophyll. Running your filtration process inside your freezer could help avoid this, and also brings me to the other main reason I wanted you to read that thread: two separate product streams.

I was hoping you would realize the necessity for separating everything that came out of the Panda, unless you wanted to increase the post processing for your extract. The second you remove the biomass from the tincture, it is warming. In the minutes you spend spinning, convection and the thermal mass carried by the basket of the Panda are working against your desired end result. Mixing the Panda spun tincture reduces the quality of your initial extraction. If two product streams are not what you’re looking for (maybe dabbable/vapeable and edibles being an example of two end products) then combine them and know that it will require an increase in post processing requirements for optimal results.

You also mentioned not wanting to use T5 and AC for fear of cannabinoid loss (reason three for directing you to that thread). Do it right and losses will be negligible, if even noticeable at all (verified with in-house analytics). Again, trying to show you a very clear path to achieving your desired end result, or at least what I think it is. There was so much in that thread that relates to your questions and process, I would encourage you to reread it. I haven’t gotten to play with ethanol and cellite much, but the results I achieved woth the T5/AC combo paled in comparison to the post processing that I just encouraged you digest.

Sorry if this is overkill for you making some meds at home, but if this is for a business, you’re definitely going to want some process review and refinement, and I again encourage more reading. Hope this helps answer your question.

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dude what page are you on? maybe get off your high horse.

its pretty clear you didnt take the time to even read my post. i made it clear id be filtering after panda, and i never once said shit about not wanting to use AC for fear of cannabinoid loss. youve miss interpreted quite a lot made assumptions instead of asking questions.

you didnt give me any “clear set of answers” you gave me a link and repeatedly said “get reading”

i didnt spend 6 months searching and reading this site over and over again, just to finally make an account and try to clarify my ideas and get your dick attitude

im doing the best i can with what i have to work with, thanks for the encouragement

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You can edit your original post to make it look like you didn’t say that about using AC, but you did.

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I’m sorry to have left you with the apparent impression that I have. There’s a ton of relevant information and questions that I posed in my last post which direclty relate to your questions. I, however, am not particularly in the mood to argue or defend myself and am happy to refrain from further discourse.

Best of luck.

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“the single response you seek”

let me make my question more clear to the best of my ability

there seems to be some discrepancy among folks regarding saturation time at cryo temperatures. im asking for anyone whos done the entire process in a -87C freezer, how long theyve been able to push saturation time without carrying over colored undesirables, assuming your working with the best material.

ive seen this anwered at a variety of temperatures, but never in a freezer that goes under 80, for the entire process

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i dunno what to tell you dude. i reworded it now for a reason. bigger yields from saturating the same material, often mean bring the kind of undesireables that require remediation. yield of concentrate is not the same as yield of cannabinoids or loss of cannabinoids from remediation. i understand youre assumption, but it was still an assumption. you could have just asked me what i meant. english isnt my first language. i was looking for a conversation with someone who knew better than me, not a self aggrandizing monologue and a link ive read through 100x

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Sí prefiere español, también lo hablo. Hay mucha gente aquí que hablan varias idiomas. Si es más difícil usar inglés, usa su lengua de preferencia. Probablemente, hay alguien aquí que también lo habla.

Otra ves, despansame si no puso mi respuesta en un modo o lengua que traducido bastante fácil. Hay otras cosas que también debes de estar pensando, y eso fue parte de que trataba a enseñar. Buena suerte.

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No limit below about -67C

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Wow, help someone out and @Akoyeh gets shit on.

I have some tid bits floating around a few threads on etoh washes. Using dry ice, and a deep freeze. My centrifuge of choice is a panda spinner.

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I thought this was a great response that proposed questions that typically would promote thoughts to get kicked up in a brain searching for answers. Maybe he was looking for a spoon. I know people have dropped them around here somewhere…

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I can’t use that spoon, even though there’s a picture of a spoon on it the label says “spork”

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My suggestion is use your freezer for winterizing. Hard to agitate in a freezer. Also, every time u open the door u loose your desired temp fast. Basically very inefficient way to do it. Use dry ice, it’s pretty easy.

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@Akoyeh no good deed goes unpunished, my friend.

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Could help out a lot

Also I’m not gonna say what you have isn’t dope or worth having but it seems like a bit of overkill.

Bucket tek > winterize> filter down to 0.2um > RotoVap.

You could also copy lost biologist tek

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any use of dry ice is simply not an option. I do appreciate the responses and the info

you can read until youre eyes fall out but sometimes you need a hand to put the ideas together. i was drawning in ideas, and thought id ask for a hand to stop things from spinning.

from a teachers perspective, when a student is drawning in concepts, throwing more reading material at him is the not the solution. identifying the specific problem concepts and hashing out the problem is much more productive, then you can take steps from there.

i agree there is an amount of overkill - i wont always be working with trim or flower, sometimes itll be large amounts of kief etc and its nice to be prepared with lots of filter options

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  1. seems legit. drying your shit is a decent move.
  2. meh. no harm, so long as you don’t coat it in ice.
  3. sure. agitation or flow would be better.
  4. incubation time. saturation is a measure of the cannabinoid to solvent ratio.
  5. you calling just any old clothes spinner a “panda”? have you see the ultimate panda mods thread?
  6. faster to filter IN the panda. 1um liner. 100um is for ninnies. trichomes will go through that shit.

again. that’s INCUBATION not saturation.

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take a look at how Pinnacle stainless does it. cannabis in the tube. flow lots of cold solvent. decent filtration in line. => rotovap. you need a reservoir in you freezer, a vacuum on your column jacket, and a pump to circulate solvent. see: cold ethanol pumps.

that is of course assuming your column is actually jacketed and not sleeved.

if you had been kinder to @Akoyeh there would be links.

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Thanks for the terminology corrections.

Nah, I actually found a panda just branded differently and yes I’ve read the mod thread and already order that jazzy 3d printed spout

https://www.manomano.es/cestos-para-la-colada-2665?model_id=13413795&g=1&referer_id=689880&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjer4BRCZARIsABK4QeWz5vHksDUl7Nle47-5GZbAuhdumigEodXCQFockCWviqmV3aFv_o0aAmzEEALw_wcB

I had argued in my head over filter bag size, thanks for convincing me

I’m terrible at socializing with others, apologies all around. I’m working on it

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No worries. It’s not terribly uncommon with the special kids playing here. Many of us need to work on that part…

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