I would respectfully ask that we keep the topic mostly on point, because now this is my thread, as if anyone owns anything on a public forum, but okay.
The point being, if you are bottlenecking yourself with Heady definitions you are hurting your business model as a cannabis entrepreneur and you should seriously start looking at it from a more scientific angle to remain competitive without having to lie to your consumers to do so. If you are a hobbyist this may not matter for you, be Heady forever! Serious entrepreneurs should be thinking about this.
ā¦
So I think most of us can at least agree on 2 things now.
HTE is the essence of the cannabis plant.
Isolated cannabinoids are just isolated cannabinoids.
With that agreement on the table we should reach a few more agreements before we go forward.
Do customers care how, or from what, their product was made from if no one tells them?
Not saying the manufacturer outright lies, but what if they just donāt specify on the packaging and the retail seller has zero idea. It is very common for retailers to lack manufacturing knowledge about the products they offer.
Can customers tell the difference when someone tells them, but is dishonest?
I donāt think people will be able to tell if they are using good materials to make them.
If it tastes good, and the experience is positive, do you think customers will refuse your product a second time once they learn the product in it was acquired from a different process?
With hype and misinformation maybe. Without all that social pressure, Iād be inclined to say they would choose what they were happy with and care little about the processes by which they were acquired as long as they are safe. If we were discussing synthesis the safe thing would really matter, but weāre not so it doesnāt.
As a consumer. Not a processor. I very much care the source!
Itās much like blood diamonds. Yes. They look just like diamonds mined from ethical spots but people surely like to buy diamonds mined in ethical practices
Now think this is what people are putting in their bodies not on their bodies and thatās even more important.
This is the problem. Cannabis people shouldnāt be entrepreneurs. They should be caregivers first and with that they will become successful.
Blood diamonds is a terrible analogy adding inherent negative connotations to the subject, running cured material into thca isnāt going to require you murder a bunch of people and destabilize a country. You are comparing Apples and Fish.
Letās address that though without comparing it to atrocities, what would be unethical about providing someone with a product that is labeled, āCannabis Live Resinā and in the ingredients it says, āTHC, Cannabis essential oil.ā?
If their essential oil came from fresh frozen material, and their THC was 92-95% THC, 0-5% THCa, and 1-5% CBN(reasonable ranges for decarbing 99.99% thca isolates regardless of their source), how can you determine if that thca they used was from frozen material, and why would it matter at that purity?
Is it fake because they didnāt tell you where they got their THC from? Or maybe itās fake because they didnāt clarify how they refined their essential oil. Had I put a less consumer friendly term on there would that make it more true suddenly?
You canāt drink either RO/DI or Distilled water continuously, the reason is because at that purity you suffer from the same problem with each. You need the essence of regular water. Minerals, ions, or whatever. So, what makes you want Aquafina over Fiji or fucking whatever is the unique added minerals and shit. The water is just water, the minerals is the brand.
How am I not thinking about what we put it in our bodies by having a conversation about what we vape? Always so quick with the disparaging remarks like your a Justice hero in this bitch. You arenāt saving anyone because they arenāt in danger Super Killa.
Also, you are an educated consumer who knows it helps to ask if itās disty to avoid the risks associated with low grade disty, are you asking if they used thca from cured material when making your live resin carts?
I expect you to care, Iām referring to your average consumer. I do appreciate your opinion though.
A caregiver should work for free?
If you make money from anything Cannabis related and arenāt an employee youāre a Cannabis entrepreneur, regardless how you got there.
Dude you are a mudding up the water. Instead of making such a mess of it to start off with just ask a simple question, what is the difference between high quality distillate and decarbed diamond? And then afterwards you can add in all the āfluffā. Some people say facts donāt care about your feelings unfortunately the other side says feelings donāt care about your facts.
My understanding was we established that quite some time ago as a group in the discussion where it started.
There is no difference between sufficiently purified THC regardless of the standard organic chemistry purification technique(extraction, filtration, distillation, and evaporation) used to achieve it.
While it seems less likely someone would produce a purified THC that would test at 99.99% cannabinoids using distillation without a crystallization on the THCa that is present before decarboxylation I imagine some skilled operators are getting very close to changing that.
What doesnāt seem less likely is if the source of THCa being used is from cured material, maybe high quality, maybe not, that people wonāt be able to easily produce THCa which is 99.99% pure which will get them a THC that tests at 99.99% cannabinoids in the exact same fashion as if the THCa had come from fresh frozen material.
I really thought we had all mostly agreed on that fact. If not letās debate that further and we can set the fluff aside for a while longer. Like a syllabus, I feel we canāt solve more complex problems in mindset if we donāt start with a strong foundation. Science can give us that foundation in this instance.
So, I was trying to get into the āfluffā next. Asking people to consider examples of how that science plays out at the average consumer level, and providing my impression of the average consumer during my 25+ yrs of cannabis marketing.
ā¦
To not muddle it, because you are correct, letās tackle one at a time.
Letās pose this as a scenario so it can be a clearly presented question. You are standing at a vape display. They all look the same, but some are labeled live resin, some are labeled distillate, some just say 1 gram cartridge. Some are priced higher some are priced lower in every tier of labeling with overlap. You donāt recognize a single brand. Which product do you buy, and why?
Now ask yourself the same scenario and try to think of it as your average consumer, but consider that the average consumer has no idea what any of it means anyway unless they heard some influencer telling them this stuff was better or they had a previous experience to lean on. Does your answer change?
Still the same questions, but how does the outcome change if they accidentally got a low quality product labelled live resin in the past and their last experience with a product labeled distillate was unfavorable as well. What would the answer be now?
Iāll play along with you. I would personally buy the most expensive product labeled live resin in this scenario because I have the highest chance of getting a good product, but understand I will likely run into a lot of products that are both expensive and donāt provide what tastes like an authentic live resin from fresh frozen product. I fall into both the exposed to cannabis āknowledgeā, and exposed to bad live resin and bad distillate groups.
I believe the average consumer will buy the cheapest live resin product if theyāve been exposed to cannabis āknowledgeā because hype supports that live resin = quality but being frugal still holds strong, and if they donāt have knowledge the cheapest product of them all.
I believe the person exposed to bad live resin and bad distillate will choose the most expensive product of them all hoping price can signify quality since the world is a lie to them.(or ask for a recommendation from the budtender who might know even less than them)
please show me just 1 coa where you decarded diamonds and didnt have cbg in it nor any terpsā¦ subtle differences is what makes this plant so unique and by you simplifying stuff that doesnt really exist in real lifeā¦ your creating a false narrative from the jumpā¦
NONE OF IT IS FAKEā¦ WE are talking about MISLABELING>>>>>>
who said you dont care what people put in their bodiesā¦ who said i actually care what you do to āYOURā bodyā¦ i certainly care what i do to my bodyā¦what is soooo disparaging about my statement??? just cause you dont like that i say we care more what we put in our bodies than what we wear on our bodiesā¦ is that not true??? maybe not in your case but if you ask the majority i bet they will agree with meā¦ LOL whos playing a super hero??? why are you sooo mad???
Im one of the biggest consumers on this siteā¦ i hope people injesting drugs are somewhat knowledgable about what they put in their bodies and are suppose to believe when someone calls something ālive resinā to be getting exactly thatā¦
who said you should work for free???.. caregivers dont work for freeā¦ caregivers definelty care for their patient.
FALSE ON THE ENTREPRENEUR DEFINITION as wellā¦ if you make money in cannabis, your a CANNABIS BUSINESS PERSONā¦ THE ENTREPRENEUR TAKES ON MORE RISKā¦ your are taking on less risk by mislabeling a cheaper product as the better product which is sorta like a snake oil salesmanā¦ Two totally different takes on the business personā¦
Well your wrongā¦ your looking at it threw your bias processor glasses and this isnt at all how it isā¦ your simply justifying ripping off people and its pretty clear nowā¦
Im glad its 5:30am and i just woke upā¦but your still here arguing the same points from the other thread that no one agreed withā¦ LOL
You come back in here diluting the conversation yet again with a million things you brought up and are now contradicting yourself on. I will respond again but Iām asking that a janitors remove your 2 responses and my 2 responses to you directly from this thread and into the Whatās the topic? Thread you already created for our banter on this subject. In honor of civil discourse I will personally quote the pieces of your response I shouldāve responded to and my responses to those parts only.
If someone disagrees with my quotes letās discuss it, but if youāre going to derail this thread with things like comparing it to if plants are alive or blood diamonds or suggesting anyone fighting for science must be a conman and really just generally anything other than should the source of THCa matter Iāll give it to you too and make another one. Hopefully if I do it enough times Iāll reach the end of the conversation, youāll get bored, or someone with actual authority will ask you to stop and maybe then youāll listen.
So the rest of the post is my response to @Killa12345 nonsense, and will not be relevant to this thread.
You rephrased it to make it look like I said you said I donāt care what goes in peopleās bodies, but that isnāt what I said at all. I directly responded to the statement that we should think about that fact. So here you are trying to alter a narrative to serve your slander.
After that you go on to act like I got mad about it because I defended myself against your suggestion Iām unethical and not thinking about what goes in our bodies. Surely those werenāt compliments, they were meant to discredit the value of the argument as if itās coming from, āa person who isnāt thinking of youā. I can defend myself without being angry, I know thatās unusual, but it does happen.
Entrepreneur:
a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so.
Business Man:
a man who works in business or commerce, especially at an executive level.
Think I covered the important bit with arenāt an employee but you mustāve just missed that.
your not gonna find one person that agrees with you on thisā¦
the source mattersā¦ sorry you cant understand that. this is an open forumā¦ you asked a question i gave my opinionā¦ i almost feel like cutting your response to the other thread but ill leave itā¦
what does this meanā¦ re-read it and does it make any sense?
is this thread just here to have you say we are all wrong as we disagree with you and give our opinions why the source matters??? Ive given plenty of examples why the source mattersā¦ and matters almost as much as the productā¦
sorry you dont understand this nor understand why its importantā¦
this has nothing to do with you and i left all that shit in the other threadā¦ lol this has all to do with the product. leave all your personal things in the echo chamberā¦
every single thing in my posts is about the original topic and has absolutely NOTHING TO do with u!
Now to quote and respond to what was on point. Happy to debate this and adjust it as necessary, be even happier when I can have this conversation without all the extra bullshit. If thatās even possible on here.
I donāt have a COA on hand, Iāll see what I can do. I usually donāt bother getting coas for products made by people after my consults nor for what I make at the hobbyist scale. If anyone has a COA to provide Iād love to see other comparisons. The last time I had my hobbyist diamonds tasted it came back at 99.92% cannabinoids(mind you this is a diamond, not pulverized, hot vacuumed, isolate). The last time I asked someone to verify my decarb SOP and tell me the results they quoted 92% THC, 2% THCa, 4% CBN, and total cannabinoids at 99.99% Iāll ask for the hard data in case I got it wrong.
Fake:
a thing that is not genuine
Mislabel:
label wrongly
Ummm? Kinda mean the same thing in our context.
I agree. This is what I hope too. How would you define that ālive resinā scientifically so they can be sure thatās what theyāre getting?
His next quote loses context without the quote it is responding to because it was constructed odd so here is the context excerpt:
and his response:
If have far more experience in marketing Cannabis than in processing like 4 times as much, I assure you when I say things like,
Iām looking at it with a consumer bias. When I say something like,
what does this mean??? you have 4x as much experience as me???
Do you think youve been doing this longer than me??? you say 25 years??? LOL
How long have you been manufacturing cannabis?? growing it or extracting it?? not just smoking itā¦
The products source mattersā¦ im just gonna keep repeating myself. is there a place for every productā¦ YES. i believe if you sell a good product distilate has a place in this industry just like diamondsā¦ do both belong in cartsā¦ why notā¦ should both be labelled as soā¦ i do believe it shouldā¦ sorry you dont.
we are here to debate these thingsā¦ my first reply had absolutely nothing directed at you but for some reason you took it as a personal attack on youā¦ go back and re-read my first postā¦ nothing to do with youā¦ stop making this about me and youā¦ this is about the products sourceā¦
these are marketing buzz wordsā¦ there is no scientific meaning behind ālive resināā¦ LOL
I guess Iāll go to sleep because at this point youāve derailed my shit again with just, āwhat does this mean what does that meanā when the meanings are obvious. Itās all just more of your diluting the subject with nonsense.
You refuse to let me discuss something without forcing me to do it around your jibber jabber. Congratulations you bullied me into submission by just being persistent because I have no one to turn to to curb this kind of behavior. You effectively chased me into my own thread and took it over. Yeah, youāre not a bully.
Iām not even going to respond to anything youāve said because at this point Iām struggling to decide what even is worth responding to and what would just be feeding into your derailments.
I guess Iāll try making a new thread in the morning or posing the question fresh then. Some community Iām trying to be a part of that letās this kind of behavior go on unchecked.
by my clock its 3:15am in californiaā¦ already the morningā¦ i didnt bully anyoneā¦ im just not agreeing with what you saidā¦ sorry you wont let people disagree with you in your own threadā¦ LOL
once againā¦ its your threadā¦ i didnt agreeā¦ im not just a bot here to agree with people. Clearly, i feel strong enough about this subject to keep going on about it as its something truly a problemā¦
you just dont see itā¦ this is why we have these conversionsā¦ i havent seen one person agree with you on the source doesnt matterā¦ why not take the hint??
Sep 19, 2:55 PM was my āmorningā. Iāve been awake for about 14 excruciating hours so far. Sleep comes when Iām so tired I can sleep through the pain. Sorry if that seems odd to some of you.
Honestly, Iām impressed Iāve handled @Slabby, especially @Killa12345, and in the last moments @qma(whom Iām not supposed to mention), without losing my cool but for a few moments considering Iām in so much pain. Especially considering Iām essentially being chased around āniceā bullied out of conversations by an authority figure in my community. Like being harassed by the cops or a teacher at school.
A little over a year ago @ExTek90 showed me decarbed diamonds test higher than distillate via cannabis test.
Up until that point I expected quality distillate to test the same as baked diamonds. Unfortunately, the baked diamonds came in way higher thc percentage with almost no d8.
I have never seen distillate even come close. Not even conversions, because they typically have at least 1% d8
While I agree that two identical jars are both the same regardless of source, that scenario doesnāt exist in the real world. So in @CuriousChemist22 world, you are correct, but in the real world you are dead wrong. People are mad at you because you are wrong, not cause they want to bully you.
Finally, I dont want you tagging me in to use me as an insult to others. I can forsure use things I know about you as an insult, but I donāt.
