Cbd isomerization to d8 and d9 thc

Hash and Stuff Pre/Post-Processing
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No I don’t think an untrained chemist will synthesize their own organometallic catalysts. Any one working in a permitted lab that is zoned commercial can purchase these catalysts though. I don’t think warning people against using pyrophoric catalysts is enough of a safe guard. I worry that some amateur who has experience running a SPD or a closed loop will order a pyrophoric catalyst and attempt to use it after convincing themselves that they’re experienced enough to do so safely.

People blowing themselves up is not a win for the gene pool. That’s a tragedy… Explosions often times have collateral damage too. Is it a win for the gene pool when people not responsible for the fire or explosion get caught in its path? Seriously coppertop take an ethics class or something, whatever you need to do to not cheer when people lose their lives.

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Freedom of information is one of our greatest privileges
And yes there are reactions that are dangerous but I can personally confirm that several isomerizations where the lead where papers , have now been developed with far safer/cleaner reagents and solvents by the industry

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If freedom of information was a relevant concept I would happily affirm your point of view and discuss how wonderful it is to freely trade information for the purposes of education, innovation, and self growth.

In this case, however, the information or one’s freedom to access it is not at risk. I doubt anyone would be happy with these patents being censored by a government. I wouldn’t like that, that’s for sure.

I would love it if members of this community recognized that one fatal mistake on the part of a ‘cook’ like squig leads invariably to big pharma being the only industrial sector allowed by law to conduct cyclizations legally. I don’t care for ‘cooks’ just out of highschool to be advising other untrained, uneducated, profiteers in the ways of organic chemistry when lives are at stake. Shit take out the life or death element and the future of this industry is still at stake.

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I hate to be the devil’s advocate here because we have plenty of them on this site already, but sometimes brining things like this into the light of discussion will make them safer. As @anon32743824 says, this information is already available. So is information on how you can easily blow your ass up with pyrophoric compounds, but unfortunately they are rarely in the same place. With the current status of the industry and processing labs/technology, I feel that it is currently a greater risk that an unknowledgeable operator would discover a dangerous method that they would try without understanding the dangers than that someone knowing the dangers of an operation (because I feel we expel much more emphasis on safety than your average ACS publication) that they see on F4.2k would try that procedure without taking the precautions necessary.

This is not to say that amateur chemists don’t often take the danger of their endeavors too lightly, just to say there is an expected value calculation to be made here. Also worth noting, we as an industry generally care more about patients/customers being unknowingly subject to harm than lab operators killing themselves by accident and there are plenty of half-assed procedures that will poison the shit out of grandma floating around that haven’t been censured. Our goal should be to educate as much as possible to make patients and operators safer, but the patients always come first IMO.

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I wish I had a strong rebuttal to that, but I don’t. There’s a lot of merit in aggregating these risky teks in the same place that safe lab construction and safe reagent handling practices are discussed.

It doesn’t alleviate any of my concerns though. 18 months ago I was the only person in my social circle that had read any of these patents. That was frustrating because I had no one to discuss this stuff with that took it seriously. By the time isolate dropped to $1,200 per kilo just about every processor I know had begun to discuss the potential profit margins involved in cyclizing to yield thc. Today, with isolate prices around $500 per kilo, even growers that I know with very limited extraction experience are talking about cyclizing with dollar signs in their eyes. I’d prefer if the least educated among us didn’t have instantaneous access to a patent that promises them a 99.99% conversion to D9. Maybe it’s different in other parts of the world, but here in Flint, Michigan I can guarantee that someone is going to try to escape poverty by synthesizing thc… And there will be explosions and lab fires. That doesn’t thrill me.

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No different than people selling public info as SOPs to unqualified operators

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Actually the difference is that they have to pay. That’s a huge threshold to cross for most poor people. I believe that it’s the poorest people who would be the most interested in producing thc for pennies on the dollar when compared to extraction. Also, a major difference is that there are no members on here selling unsafe SOPs involving triisobutylaluminium. Whereas now there is mention of it on this site. The differences are pretty obvious imo.

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If you want to do few test experiments, you 'd better directly buy 1 to 3 N HCl solutions in diethyl ether or methanol, which are available commercially (e.g. from Sigma).

Otherwise there are various video tutorial showing you how to produce your own HCl gas. It is not complicated, but the gas is very hazardous. And producing it large scale seems to involve complicated apparatus… even just handling commercial gas bottle is complex, it is a very corrosive gas, bottles valves etc have very limited lifetime (hence why most experimental chemists prefer producing a little bit in-situ and dissolve it in the solvent of their choice)…

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Agreed 100%, this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type scenario. I think the only acceptable response is that as the dam begins to break and the risk of unqualified operators trying these procedures increases, we increase access to information on how to run schlenk lines and execute these processes safely. If nothing else, hopefully we can elicit the same feeling of those who open blast on shag carpet that “I am doing something horribly unsafe”. It won’t stop everyone, but the people who read far enough to find where they can buy the reagents might get enough context about how painful it will be to burn to death in the mean time

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unfortunately we are going to have the equivalent of open blasters running conversions.

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There are also list of chemicals dealt with here which are not available at all at the corner drugstore… those with very high noxious effects, or notorious in drug/poisons/explosive processing need some screening from authorities prior to purchase (or at least raise a red flag), even if buying in very small quantities. Moreover, the small quantities, mainly intended for research, are often very expensive.

The UN experts already predicted the possibility of synthesis of illegal d9 through isomerisation since many years, but judged, so far, that it would still be more profitable for criminal organization to deal with the natural source, rather than sourcing larges batches of chemicals and attracting attention… but now, with CBD price dropping down, PLUS the combined effect of boarder enforcement and covid quarantine… I’m pretty sure that the UN is revising its position. And I also think that most of the most popular commercial catalyst are identified, and tracked…

In this page, we do actually help the authorities experts to clear this work. :woman_scientist: :policeman:

We should somehow be paid for that. Even have a card.

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Seriously, where’s my DEA consultant ID badge Uncle Sam? That would put me over the moon :joy:

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I have posted a hcl generator a while back for those Best Method for Hydrochloric Acid Gas

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the pigs had been chassing the hive synthetikal and thevespiary since the start.

there chemistry though ok is miles behind the braking edge.

this can all bee seen in there journals which they tend to try and keep secret thinking in
the way that you are that people will harm them selves with the info.

as for pyrophoric.

which was in regards to

so you have said its not pyrophoric (which I also said) and then later told us about the danger
of teaching people how to use pyrophoric compounds.

dont stress there are people here like us to let them know when they are going to lose
an eye or hand or what ever.

ive had some pretty nasty acidents on my path so I truly do understand your concern and
I am very glad that you have it.

You will make this place much better with your efforts and help a great many people.

a small push in the right way and a great many things can be done.

as for making money of THC

they aint ever going to make THC extract legal to sell in Australia so the money will always be there.

hell its not even legal in the netherlands.

the few states it is in the USA are not a good model to base everyone else on I think.

the recipe for ICE has been on the planet for a long time.

its price still did not drop and trust me its just as easy to cook as CBD is to isomerise.

get and acid put in the goodies and heat, sounds kind of like what every one is doing here.

on second thoughts if you make up the aluminium reagent here this is a killer isomerization.

its done at 25C so room temp and its yield is very good.

what will happen from the actions of this site is that hemp oil will became a recorded and monitored
item so you will have to hand over your license to get it.

everyone will want and does want the stuff so thats no problem.

also as it will still be an S3 here operators who do not label it for human consumption will still be
able to sell it.

hell I just bought some legally with out script in australia.

they aint stopping this one and trust me it is the best thing that could have happened to us.

the THC extracts are legal in the USA yet the black market is going even stronger for it and there
prices have not been destroyed.

the price per kilo of CBD is not the same as the price of a drug that gets you high on the street.

all drugs should must and will be legal.

our lives depend on it.

for a grower I would stop trying to make CBD extract and make hemp infusion selling the healing
properties of nature and how there is no chemical process used.

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You can’t mention isopropyl aluminium without opening the doors to discussions about triisobutylaluminium… Which is pyrophoric. Also you did explicitly reference that one in the post I referred to. You can say that you’re not advocating it’s use, and that’s fine man, but just by posting that to an open forum I worry that you increase the likelihood of someone unskilled in safe air-free technique ordering it and handling it.

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rule number one of working with explosive reactions.

BLOW THAT FUCKER UP

and do it quite a few times in as many interesting and different ways that you can.

then try not to blow it up.

you will find you will have a better chance of not blowing something up if you have already
seen the puppy in action before.

you will also have a much better idea of when you realy are in danger.

pyrophorics :slight_smile:
make them catch fire.

try and see how little O2 is needed for them to burn by leaking gas into your argon
environment.

still all very basic stuff.

its the thermodynamics of some reactions and the toxicity of some compounds that really
scare me.

I really have to find an acetone peroxide oxidation that works on a cannabinoid now just
for shits and giggles :slight_smile:

(Acetone peroxide is a big no no. don’t make it don’t touch it don’t hang with dudes who make or touch it trust me going blind is the least of your worries with this one)

oh and germs I hate germs.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride

this guys blog has a section on things he will not work with.

ive worked with a very small number of them and yep I wouldn’t work with them again.

great blog even if your not a chem nut some of the shit he explains is so outside the realms
of normal life that is a great read for anyone.

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great patent with many ways to isomerise CBD.

to figure out which is delta 9 and delta 8 as a product use specific rotation

around 150 to 160 is delta 9

US2419936.pdf (639.1 KB)

also its roger adams

if its blatt or adams you use it they wrote everything that today is based on well close to everything

adams was the first to isolate CBD over 75 years ago

RogerAdamsfeatured3
RogerAdamsfeatured31200×630 410 KB

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THE ISOMERIZATION OF CANNABIDIOL TO TETRAHYDROCANNABINOLS Y. GAONI and R. MECHOULAM
isomerization(1).pdf (559.3 KB)

I missed this with my search as the search was for cannabinoid.
I shall expand the search now to include cannabis Tetrahydrocannabinol and Cannabidiol + CBD THC

StructureofCannabidiol VI Isomerization of Cannabidiol toTetrahydrocanna-binol,a Physiologically Active Product Conversion of Cannabidiol to Cannabinol

adams1940 iso.pdf (427.6 KB)

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Cannabidiol: an overview of some chemical and pharmacological aspects. Part I: chemical aspects

Detailed CBD to THC.pdf (221.4 KB)

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Something that has not been mentioned and should be here is how to tell when your reactions are finished and what kind of yeild of d8 or d9 you have.

the answer lies in two properties first is the beams test made of a 5% koh to 95% ethanol mix.
beams will turn blue/purple if there is any CBD in the mixture

the next is optical rotation

THC delta 9 is in the range of 152 too 160 degrees

THC delta 8 is in the range of 254 too 268 degrees

the closer your optical rotation is to either side of the measurements the more of the isomer of
THC you have.

it would seem that on review of the article posted that it not only explains the manufacture
of the cheap instrument but also how to use it :).

for testing cbd via beams and other diy tests this is a great link

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