Is it 100% necessary to dissolve CBD isolate in heptane (or other solvent) during the clay reflux or can I just reflux the clay in Isolate at around 75C? I make D8 from D9 disty by doing the same thing. Basically l’ll add 10% T41 to my D9 disty, relux around 150 torr for 2-3 hours, then preform the distillation as normal being mindful of the azulene fraction. Then I’ll re-distill just to make sure I’ve cleaned it up real nice.This was a technique passed down to me from some good friends and it seems to work pretty darn well going from d9-d8.
I disagree. Ring closing reactions are normally very energetically favorable so cbd converting to thc is definitely energetically favorable.
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Not true. Cyclizations fall under Baldwin’s rules and Burgi-Dunitz angles. There are 8 unfavorable ring closures on sp3, sp2, and sp systems.
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Generally you’re right. I was speaking specifically about case of cbd to thc in the presence of a proton source. N the one hand formation of a carbocation intermediate seems like a possibility as it would be tertiary so fairly favorable.
Even if that doesn’t happen, a 6 membered ring is formed on a sp2 hybridized carbon which in both cases based off of the article you showed me is favorable. Very interesting article thank you for sharing.
Do you have any experimental data that is counter to what I’m saying?
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Well for one, the post you responded too never said ring closing was unfavorable. It said ring closing in a single step with isomerization (as opposed to consecutively) was unlikely.
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Thank you for the clarification.
important to know is that hydrogen chloride will react with most terpenes in cannabis oil.
terpenes as you know are steam distillable so I would put oil in a pot with water and boil for a bit
before extracting into solvent separating then drying with zeolite and follow the gassing under argon
procedure that kingofkush has devised sounds like a wise move to me.
of course this is not needed for isolate.
also when it comes to purifying reaction mixes that deal with cannabis I am not so sure
that your short path distillation is good enough when dealing with possible carcenogenic
side reactions.
you will never get a full separation with out a good fractionating collumn or using some kind
of chromatographic procedure.
your not going to be able to run any cannabis oil over a fractionating column and as we are adding
a halogen to an alkene I think we are decreasing its dielectric constant so pushing it more into
the realms of RP chrom $$$$$.
just steam the terpenes off first if you have any in your cbd pre isomerization.
and also remember the tests you guys are getting are not testing for halogenated terpenes are they ?
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It did more of such tests myself, using various kind of solid catalysts… The pathway seems clearly CBD to d9 and then d9 to d8 (with an intermediate at each steps). In parallel, depending on conditions, other minor products can be formed. A series of byproduct forms systematically. If oxygen is present, a bit of CBN and little amount of few other additional compound form as well.
If my attribution of d10 is right (close to cbc position, as I observed in rare cbd flowers, and more often in specific distilates), then there is not any of this forming in such synthesis experiments.
I tried similar tests on CBG, but got a series of two main unknowns in that case…
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What do you mean by horrible yields ?
What analysis method are you referring to ? Retention times widely vary with method, column etc…
I guess this other main mysterious peak you see is the intermediate between d9 and d8, which might be the 8-OH-iso-HHC ( edited, not iso-d8-THC,) often referred to in some papers. Then, I also guess that intermediate between CBD and d9 may actually be 9α-OH-HHC (edited, not iso-d9-THC) .
Most synthesis attempt should thus results in binary or ternary mixture involving this 5 players (CBD, 9-OH HHC, d9-THC, 8-OH-iso -HHC, d8*THC) here, along with at least 10 minor compounds (including CBN, and the varin analogues of those 5 main components).
It also seems the varin analogues are more diffucult to transform, and that depending on condition, a portion of the main cannabinoid is driven to the varin line. Which at part explained the decrease in final expected yield.
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Would you mind linking that literature, I can’t seem to find it online. I’m not sure why you’d get iso-d8 THC or iso-d9 THC. The stereochemistry at the 6a and 10a carbons shouldn’t be effected when converting CBD to THC
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I haven’t been looking into proper modeling of the underlying process. I’m just maiking some empiric conclusion based on analytics, and what I see in paper, e.g. here or in this book.
I correct myself, that first intermediate between CBD and D9 would rather be 9α-OH-HHC and then the one between D9 and D8 would be 8-OH-iso-HHC. Thus, these are hexahydrocannabinols, and not tetrahydrocannabinols.
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found another isomerization that goes strictly to delta 9
Example 3
Preparation of Trans-delta-9-THC
The cannabidiol from Example 2 (18.5 g, 58.8 mmol) was dissolved in dichloromethane (324 mL, 17.5 vol) and heated to 25° C. Triisobutylaluminum (5.9 mL of 1 M solution in hexane, 10 mol % catalyst) was then added via syringe and the reaction stirred at 20-25° C. for approx 20 h. After this time, HPLC analysis of the reaction mixture showed consumption of the cannabidiol and 94.8% trans-delta-9-THC. The reaction was quenched with water (1.6 mL, 15 equiv. based on moles of catalyst) and stirred for 1 h. After filtration through celite, the solvent was switched to toluene and the reaction mixture azeotroped to remove any remaining water. The solution of product in toluene (total volume ca. 92 mL) was used directly in the subsequent step.
I would be using TriIsopropyl Aluminium instead of the isobutyl.
from what ScienceSquirrel states its quite tame to use.
I have made triisopropylaluminium and it is not pyrophoric or particularly air sensitive. It does react with water but not in a spectacular way. (I think he is talking about the triisopropyl aluminium and not the isopropoxide that the thread might make one think he is talking about. he is prity much on the ball with most of this posts)
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=18059
to make the cat I think following the triethyl aluminium route would be the go
iso halo propane and aluminium powder
then sodium metal
still triethyl aluminium is pyrophoric as are most tri alkyl aluminium reagents so treat the first few triisopropyl aluminium synths with care
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Did you really have to post about the organometallic catalysts? Most of us on here that are familiar with them have been purposely avoiding mentioning them in posts. How would you feel about taking those posts down?
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Isn’t that like um censorship?
You can google the paper it’s not rocket science
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Censorship? How? I’m not an admin, or any other official. I haven’t flagged the posts or anything. In my eyes it’s a request. A favor even.
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In time I intend to put up every single journal and patent procedure for everything to do with cannabis chem
that I can.
I can understand your view.
though I do trust the admins over a sciencemadness and if one of them says they have made
isopropyl aluminium and not found it pyrophoric I believe them.
due to this alone that post has shown you something.
I dont tell you what to cook.
I would recommend though as you have a great knowllage of chemistry to put a comment as you have
about the danger of such a procedure.
I tend to agree 
but it would be nice to have everything here in a nice thread by thread basis.
there is a method to my madness
also not all organometallics are nasty
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Yeah that’s not new info about isopropyl aluminium. I haven’t told you what to cook, if you want to use organometallic catalysts that’s fine with me. I wouldn’t recommend sharing the parents that can blow up the average ‘cook’ during this time period when a single lab explosion due to a cyclization/isomerization could lead to serious federal legislation that blocks cannabis processors from legally pursuing those ends.
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do you honestly think that anyone is going to try and make a alkyl aluminium reagent to do a home
isomerization when any acid even the ones in the supermarket will do.
im not interested in using organometalics for isomerization.
I am interested in learning more about cannabiniod chemistry and what I find I would like to share.
If I get a general vote to stop I shall.
for now its one to the yes’s and one to the no’s
on second thoughts how are they going to get the sodium metal unless they are following nurd rages
work.
then if they are doing that and there making dioxane to purify the sodium and there making alkyl halides I think that you will find that isopropyl aluminium is not going to cause them trouble.
there was a reason I put my thoughts in the post and didn’t just say go for gold with the butyl compound.
though I am not sure that it is any worse than the isopropyl.
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He did basically mention “this is dangerous as hell and do not attempt if you don’t know wtf you’re doing“. He provided a lead. Anyone doing this for commercial purposes can hire a trained chemist to train them how to conduct this procedure safely. Anyone who blows themselves up attempting this on their own without doing their research or getting professional assistance, well, they’re out of the gene pool. So it sounds like a win for the species.
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