Cbd isomerization to d8 and d9 thc

Since the last thread on this turned in to a real shit show, I thought I’d start this since it’s obvious some of us would like to discuss the original topic. If you can’t refrain from flaming other members and stay at least roughly on topic, please return to the thread in the echo chamber. Ok, with that out of the way…

From what I managed to glean before everything went south in the previous thread, acid seems to be the key to the conversion. T41 or citric acid in the boiling flask sound like the safest, most stoner friendly of the catalysts I’ve heard mentioned. Reflux time or residency time in the cook flask also seems to play a role in getting a complete conversion. Are there adjustments in amount of catalyst used in the boiling flask and or residency/reflux time that will allow me to control the ratio of D9/d8?

I’ve heard the cleaner my starting material, the less chance there is for side reactions. Is it other cannabinoids or just other BS in the distillate that will cause this @cyclopath?

I have a distillate that’s close to 100% cannabinoids. Lab says 100.046% actually, but I’m pretty sure they’re a little off there.

My plan is to add some citric acid to one batch and T41 to another. Reflux both (separately) for about 12 hours and then run them off and take to the lab. Who wants to tell me roughly what I’m gonna get out of these experiments?

Oh, bake the T41 in the oven for a while first to remove the water from it, because that will also play a role, correct?

Ok wizards, enlighten me!

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All i really want to know is how successful one could be tossing cbd, citric acid and cooking oil in the oven and baking the hell out of it. I know you couldn’t smoke the results, i was thinking oral. Unfortunately its gonna cost me an arm and a leg to find this information out in testing, but eventually ill do this.

will report back

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the less ingredients in the pot before you add acid and heat, the more likely you are to get a defined end product. beyond that, I have no data.

just sending samples out to any old third party lab doesn’t really solve the “side reactions” problem imo. you need to sit down with the chemist and examine the before and after chromatograms meticulously to know if you’re getting off target products formed.

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side reactions have me concerned with using d8 in any products. I tried ordering some off someone here, had a negative response and that got me thinking about what the other 11ish % of the distillate was. So, i don’t sell d8

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Thanks. I have already talked to the chemist at our testing lab to do just that!

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Our current experiment are on CBD isolate, much simple to understand whats going on. Im done with the distillate part, Always come up with weird results.

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Interesting, thanks. Maybe I should convert a bit to isolate and try both that way too for comparison sake.

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I threw a buddies “D8” sample on the GC I’m currently trying to pull back to functional only yesterday.

in addition to d8, CBD, delta9, and CBN, there was also a peak in the vicinity of THCV which I have come to associate with D10…along with a couple of others I can’t begin to put names on.

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Are the thcv, CBC, and d10 peaks real close together @cyclopath?

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BTW, i used to experiment my shit, vaped, and really have not any weird side effect… im used to try pharmacologically Active components and fairly confidente that at least my batches where at least not deadly harmful…

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I ordered some that gave me a headache and instant stomach lockup/constipation; made me very concerned about cleanup/side reactions, residual reagents…

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This is what I want to avoid.

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I used my stuff all night long during new years Eve, like literally all night long, really nice Buzz with no side effects, also It helped a lot with alcool hangover too…

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Btw, i washed my stuff very well, innorder to remove solvents and acid at least… Dont know the side product, but at least for my experience nothing harmful, at least in short time (i clearly dont know long terme exposure)

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SRI-GC with FID:

THCV has the shortest retention time. presumed D10 peak has a very similar retention, haven’t had them in the same injection. CBC runs closer (essentially on top of) to CBD in this setup.

only those running HPLC can mistake CBC and D10. even then it depends on the column and method used, and how much attention the operator is paying to the other wavelengths on their DAD.

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It sounds like I should send you the samples after I’m done instead of our local lab…

nah, the GC in question is one I’ve been using for years, but getting time on it these days requires co-ordination (I’m getting it back in shape so I can use it, but it belongs to a facility that I no longer work for). you really want an analytical chemist with an LC-MS who is willing to spend some time digging into the ID’s.

a GC FID can only tell you how long it took to get through the tube, and that it burns. a tandem quadrapole mass spec gives waaaay more clue

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Ok, so what’s the best testing method to determine all the constituents of a product with absolute certainty? No guessing. When I’m done it would be great to know with absolute certainty there isn’t anything harmful from side reactions?

triple quad MS with a trap should get you most of the way there.

pretty sure you can do denovo ID’s with those critters. there will certainly be folks who will want more data than this sort of machine can provide for denovo ID’s, but if you’re starting from a defined product, chances are you won’t have anything showing up that nobody has ever seen before.

where is the “ask a chemist” button?!?

I know @MagisterChemist has spent time running 3rd party analytics.
@Alexsiegel94 is probably the most qualified to answer D10 questions.
@adinaOE?

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Happy to run tests for you, you are in california so it shouldn’t be difficult. DM me here.

We will quantify d8, d9, d10 and d6a10a THC for you. Additional mystery peaks will be reported as well

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