I have seen this mentioned here and in many articles online. I was wondering if anyone had a more definitive write up.
Here is the one I’ve found on reddit that was of interest:
Has anyone tried this TEK? If there more info on it? Maybe some better descriptors? because I basically don’t understand the steps from : “Get ready to separate the THC and water / sodium citrate”–-
On-ward.-
I mean, I do. But I also don’t. For some reason my brain can’t make sense of totally what their trying to describe and no matter how many times or ways I read it it doesn’t make much sense and would seem to waste a tonne of product.
I’d much love to achieve a good yielding conversion from such simple ingredients and basic distillation setup. I’m far less concerned with any harmful by-products even tho I have noticed much talk about the unknowns here. I personally feel if citric acid devolved into something harmful it would have been discovered and reported on very well with it’s wide and long term, well established use.
(It’s vitamin C yo, chill out. lol)
And I simply can’t believe any cannabis derived cannabanoid would be really harmful in anyway.
These gummies have been out a long time now too and even with the sketchy practices testing solvents used etc no deaths reported. Maybe some bad effects or upset tummies, but no deaths. And if there was any I’m 10000000% sure it was from dirty product not anything CBD could ever be changed into. lol.
So without much concern for isolation of the cannabanoid compounds, like many seem to target D8 for legal reasons but that isn’t my concern,(but obv with great concern for a non toxic product). I would much prefer to get a wide variety of the compounds in high yields with as much D-9-D8 and all those other THCA and HHC and other yummy pain relieving sleep aiding compounds as possible. CBD excluded or at absolute min levels.
I know this is a big ask, but I figured this would be the place to reach out for more definitive info. I am also not against changing solvents to something like ethyl alcohol or something less “crazy” as purging and BPs for those are much easier to hit then some other suggested mediums.(I don’t even get how you’d use things like sulfuric acid, considering it’s BP is so high you’d destroy your product before you removed the acid?) But anyway; I digress and suppose I will leave it at this for now.
My chemistry level is basic and low but am quick learner and have even actually ran a BHO closed loop lab with purge ovens and helical compressors and all that jazz before so. eh… Still humbled by the far better scientists out there and excuse my basic-ness in advance. Thanks for the help and input.
Oh, here is some interesting reading materials related to topic. Tho I haven’t been able to find anything to definitive or one I am able to fully understand for my target goal?
Synthetic route sourcing of illicit at home cannabidiol (CBD)
isomerization to psychoactive cannabinoids using ion
mobility-coupled-LC–MS/MS
Thomas D. Kiselak, Rachel Koerber, Guido F. Verbeck*-
Stability of cannabidiol (CBD) in solvents and formulations: A
GC–MS approach
Chiara Franco a, Stefano Protti a, Alessio Porta a, Federica Pollastro c,d, Antonella Profumo a,
Barbara Mannucci e, Daniele Merli a,b-
my best advice is to stay away from reddit for any of this stuff, from my experience it’s mostly people just winging it with little knowledge, equipment and attempting a simple shake and bake method… the figures stated of 50% d8 50% d9 after 8hrs is complete bs, they’ve pulled these figures from their boof hole.
the separation in that tek is due to the cannabinoid oil being sticky and unmanageable as it cools, it seems very messy and overly complicated using ice and strainers etc… the sodium citrate he’s referring to is just the by-product of neutralising citric acid with sodium bicarbonate and nothing to worry about, just discard it in the water washing phase.
a much simpler method would be: after the reflux is complete, extract the cannabinoids using a non-polar solvent like heptane or suitable alternative, the cannabinoids will dissolve in the NPS and float on top of the water.
you can then decant the solution from your flask into a separatory funnel and proceed with a couple of base, salt and distilled water washes… invert/shake repeatedly (remember to vent after every other invert as there will be pressure build up), allow to settle for 15-30mins then discarding the aqueous layer each time (leaving the organic layer in the sep funnel) repeating 3 times each for base, salt and distilled water.
(search for liquid-liquid extraction (LLE) on YT if you are unfamiliar with the process)
the result will be a lovely clear yellow organic layer comprising of the heptane and your isomerised cannabinoids. You’ll need to boil off, recover, distill or vacuum purge your solvent and you’ll be left with cannabinoid oil. it’s not really safe for consumption until it has been run through proper distillation and even then there may be isomerised by-products that you shouldn’t be consuming.
there is a great thread on known cannabinoids created via the isomerisation process and still many unknowns we don’t know about and can’t test for. it’s not at all accurate to assume any of these are safe for consumption, they could well be toxic, carcinogenic or lead to addiction and psychosis like the old synthetic cannabinoids - k2, spice etc… we just don’t have that information available yet. getting analytical testing can give you better insight into what you have made but can’t tell you the full story.
Can say that again. I tried to ask a chem question in the chem forum and they said they would never let me post there because I don’t seem like I know what I’m doing… Yeah. No Sh@@ elitiest fks, that’s why I am asking. Lol. But yes. Reddit is a joke and I get almost nothing done on there any more. Seems all the big forums are owned by deeply lodged douches.
Glad I found your thread and asked you. thank you for this input and info. Invaluable. Tho i still can’t think of which solvent I’d want to use. Still seems there is so much research to be done in that regard. I think heptane, pentane, ethanol, etc are some of the more tame ones?. I’m not sure I have the balls for using sulfuric acid yet or another aggressive hard to clean solvent in a consumed product.
I understand that and wish I could afford lab testing but my car needs new brakes and tires, they keep shutting my food stamps off and starving me, and I’m working poor class. I have a tonne of medical problems to boot but anyway… The only big disclaimers I see seem to be with aggressive solvents. Namley a very scary one people using P-TSA and it causing literal DNA mutation. lol.
Thank you for all this info friend. I will have to try to check all this out asap. Just read ALL those articles I posted yesterday x.x brains kinda fried haha. Who would have known CBD and citric acid would be such a intensive endeavor.
Time of reaction isn’t so much a issue for me? Especially if I can narrow down a solid recipe that would produce FAIRLY consistent results. AND forgo fancy solvents or acids. That would triply motivate me to stick with this route if a respectable yield was achievable.
Hmm, I’d love their input on it to? They active on here? any link to the thread by chance please? Thanks dawg
Oh yes that’s right ty. always get them mixed up. Close kissing cousins tho ;p
An sorry in advance everyone forum is throttling me and making it really hard to stay engaged/keep my place or train of thought…
Ethanol isn’t suitable for extracting from water, you need a solvent that is immiscible with your solution. (forming two distinct layers and your extracting solvent must have a higher affinity with target substance) so for example you could run the reaction in ethanol then when it comes to extraction you could add a non polar solvent then add water… the cannabinoids will lose affinity for the ethanol as it’s watered down and flock to the nps.
from what i’ve gathered over my short time here, heptane seems to carry less risks compared to common alternatives but you should still consider this very toxic and make sure there is no trace or as little ppm as possible in your final product. this is achieved through roto evaporation and multiple distillations.
Yeah good call, have a look at the powder teks - cbleach, activated charcoal etc or stick with the less dangerous or toxic materials to start with before you have the knowledge and experience to tackle anything more advanced.
For powder - after reaction you can buchner filter/run through a column a few times then solvent recovery and distil. people have had decent success with it.
yeah from my understanding this was ethanol+ptsa which was/is a popular isomerisation method and there has been a few posts warning about this, alcohol + acid is a bad idea but I’m not knowledgeable enough to expand on this any further. most reactions will have undesired by-products and you should take all necessary precautions to limit exposure to yourself and others.
yeah it sure is a lot to take in, especially if you have no prior experience. i spent a good few months reading around here, published papers and consuming lots of basic chemistry content before buying equipment/supplies. then re-read everything again before attempting my first experiments and I’m still just a noob trying to find his feet.
This is a great site full of knowledgeable individuals willing to share their expertise and experience, an absolute goldmine of information. stick around and read as much as you can, you’ll gain confidence and knowledge everyday
I wish you the best of luck in your citric acid and other endeavours and remember to report back and share whatever info you gain from your experiments.
You do not possess the appropriate analytics or chromatography equipment necessary to produce a final product that will be safe to consume. You also admit you don’t have regular money for food and vehicle maintenance suggesting you should not be spending money on the expensive equipment you’ll need to do this process the right way.
Do yourself a favor and consume real d9 THC from a natural source or get D8 from a reputable source, if any exist.