Carts that don't sugar

Hi All,
Quick question, what THCA level seems to be acceptable/safe going into a cart to ensure that it does not sugar up? I know many people use distillate so it will be completely decarbed, but if adding a high terp fraction with THCA in it, what level should we aim to be under? I’m thinking under 20% is safe, but this is mostly just a hunch.

Why put thca into a cart when its only going to convert to thc?

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See previous discussion here:

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To preserve that precious terp fraction. Also because we all want to think vaporizing THCA yields different effects than D9 as is even if it just turns to D9 anyway.

I don’t know, I realize there is absolutely no scientific basis supporting it but there’s a widespread belief that THCA produces a much more clear-headed effect than D9 distillate. Maybe we are all sheep and just repeat it because it’s what we have always known. Maybe there is something different about vaporizing THCA->D9 than vaporizing D9 as is. Perhaps distilled D9 getting roasted that second time in the atomizer degrades to something different, weaker, who knows. I don’t think it’s necessarily correct to assume that if you throw several hundred degrees at two different chemicals (in a mixture of hydrocarbons, mind you) that you should expect the same exact output. That’s my only guess. We’re all just guessing until we see more comprehensive aerosol studies.

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So wouldn’t it make sense to just pour off the terps and then decarb the Thca? - in regards to losing the precious terps at least

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I want to try a wickless carts, I sugar up tester carts pretty often and I think its the cotton wick preventing the sugar from contacting the coil that causes clogs.

Bag appeal

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For the first half of my answer, yeah probably. Accurate or not, enough customers think they will get different results from THCA so it will appeal to a different niche demographic. I think the rise in live resin cartridges has created a subset of people who more or less consider a little bit of crystallizing a sign that the oil is legit live resin. HTSFE would fall into a similar category. Anything to differentiate it from run of the mill raw distillate with fake terps. Does it make sense? Probably not. Does product marketing ever really make sense?

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Yeah I lost all service due to a storm so I only just got to edit my reply lol but d9 is d9 the only thing I can see changing the interaction is the presence of extras - lipids, waxes, terps, or whatever else someone uses as an additive. That’s just my opinion though, but I can appreciate the point of view of there possibly being some sort of difference between distilled d9 vs thca->d9

But yeah, marketing and “bag appeal” :man_facepalming:t2:

“The expanding co2 helps drive the vapor deeper and quicker into the lung tissue”

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Taking a dab of pure THCa is unlike any high I have ever experienced. Super clear headed with the ability to focus on anything I put my mind to. When dabbing straight D9 its all about the temperature and vaporization point. If you were able to only vaporize the D9 then I’m sure the High would be very similar to THCa but not exactly the same. D9 reisomerizes to D8 because the location of that double bond is much more thermodynamically stable there. As we all know, or should know, D9 degrades to CBN under high heat or oxidation so there are probably even more effects that can be felt from experiencing D8, D9, and CBN all at the same time. This placed into a cart all depends on the atomizer in the cart matched with the battery itself. If they are not a perfect match then the production of too much heat could cause many side products to be formed.

@FTGLabs As for the idea of just pouring off the treps and then decarbing the THCa there is always some fraction of THCa trapped in the terp fraction so decarbing it will just cause you to lose precious terps in their very specific ratios given off by the plant. I know extraction changes these ratios initially but the more you can preserve the better.

@G_Boe as for your initial question I’m curious what the other 80% of your cart would be? If you chose to use 20% Terps with THCa. Typically things do not crystallize unless they are over 70% of a material that is more stable in its crystalline form. If you’re just looking to flavor your cart with terps that contain THCa then I would say 8-10% is enough to get that taste imparted on your cart. If you have some distilled terps with a bit of D9 in them those would come in handy for getting that broad spectrum of terps to help back up the major profile imparted by the primary terp fraction. Hope this helps.

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We are trying to make a cart that is as similar to an extract made with the same material, such as sugar.

We are using both cured and Fresh frozen material, in different runs of course. We separate out the THCA as best we can, most recent run yielded 292g of THCA, and 82g of THCA laden terpenes. This has all been purged of solvent. We decarbed the THCA, and then added the 82g of terps back and homogenized. This will go in carts, we are just trying to figure out if we need to try and do a second crash on the terps or not. I sent out R&D tests on the terpene fraction and the THCA after decarbing to check what the terpene levels are, what amount of THCA is still in the terps, and to ensure we fully decarbed the THCA alone. Also sent a test for the final formulated oil, will have results next week.

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Well you wouldn’t decarb the stuff left in the terp fraction… I thought that would have been obvious as the pouring off of the terps would be to preserve them. But I would also imagine that degradation for thca > cbn would occur as well were the temp high enough, unless you have some data to show that this doesn’t happen when dabbing thca

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Sorry sometimes people ask questions or make statements on here that are not crystal clear so it’s always better for me to clarify and make sure that we are on the same page. I agree in small amounts the THCa could go from a > 9 > 8 > CBN but I imagine they would be very small amounts and the primary cannabinoid hitting your receptors would be D9 even if the heat were a little higher than normal. You have to think of all the chemical transitions and the amount of energy it takes to get from one “state” to the next. And then take into consideration the amount of heat it takes cannabinoids to “vaporize” and not touch that heating element anymore. Lots of chemistry going on here.

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Agreed much chemistry going on. I’m no chemist, learned mostly everything regarding cannabinoids from here and google. It would be best if there was a way to test what comes out - maybe something like that cigarette filter test, if you’ve ever seen it, Or testing the “Smoke” vapour to see what’s what. There probably a better way lol but the end goal would be to compare the two disty d9 vs thca when combusted or vaporized - id also assume that a range of temps would be necessary to see when, if any, the ratios change and how heavily

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I went to school for chemistry but stopped at my BS to pursue a life in the marijuana industry. I have been at it for 2 years now and have learned so much in my various positions and through this site as well. I currently work in the analytical lab at the facility and I think that some of the chemists that came before me actually did research on this exact test you’re referring to. They have blown Gpen formulations from the back of the battery into a GC vial to try and identify compounds that may be created in the vaporization process. This was during the whole Vit E scare last year. I think they did another experiment using a Puff Co. Peak vaporizing different concentrates to try and analyze the compounds that were produced at different temperatures. Your thinking and testing procedure has the beginnings of some really good research to be done in this industry.

I’m looking for this as well.

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wickless is 100% the move cotton is a thing of the past

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What are your top suggestions to try out? Thanks.

Cerall is the only one. The “black ceramic” carts

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