I suspect the inlet pressure at the pump is far lower during operation, if anyone has any empirical data on that?
I apologize for prejudging your response before reading it in depth. I was rather distracted at the moment.
CNG vs LNG
This was just a general analogy to explain that a solution which makes sense at one scale may not be the best once scaled up. The modes of operation are very similar, one process uses compression (which generates heat), and then rejects the heat via heat exchange to atmosphere. The other uses refrigeration to liquefy the gas, both methods can generate the suction needed to drive the process.
On a broader level I believe a passive process without moving parts, and sanitary heat exchangers only is the cleanest method possible, and would be desirable even if the costs are slightly higher.
Use of refrigeration for vapor recovery vs. solvent chilling
The main need for specialized refrigeration is for liquid solvent chilling to low temps, there are already as I’m sure you know many large tonnage UL-listed systems on the market for vapor recovery.
On our flagship model: (https://www.greenprocess.solutions/2020/01/13/40-ton-refrigeration-system/) it includes 2 cooling and 1 heating loop, the -60 Deg C flooded R-507 loop uses 2 stages to reach such a low temperature but provides modest tonnage at that temperature. The -15.6 °C glycol loop runs on the 1st stage and provides far more tonnage. The purpose would be to use the glycol loop for vapor recovery to the solvent storage tank, and then apply -60 Deg C cooling loop just prior to the injection back into the extraction process. Considering the scale of the system, combining it all together provides an energy savings, especially due to the use of waste heat which can be returned to the process. As well as a cleaner integration which only uses one refrigeration system.
Regarding choked flow
Your right, choked flow is only one potential bottleneck in the system. The main issue with many extractors is insufficient heat transfer in the recovery pot (Couldron), this must be overcome with some form of FFE or WFE. (as illuminated extractors have done)
The 2nd major issue is frictional flow loss in the rats nest of long hoses going between the recovery pumps and heat exchangers.
The 3rd major issue would be the limits of the recovery pumps volumetric pumping capacity.
Only after all of those limits are overcome would choked flow become the principal limit, I brought it up because it is one of the lesser known limitations. A comprehensive analysis should look at all of these limitations. And extractors would benefit to know that this type of bottleneck exists, as it behaves in a counter intuitive way in the sense that once P2 is less than ~50% P1 no additional pumping will do anything.
Great write-up! You are completely correct on all of the issues which challenge current extraction systems. It is for many of these reasons in which we designed our systems the way we have.
For instance, our Behemoth extraction system (100% 2 inch piping or larger except for injection lines), butane / propane / mix compatible, can process over 1000 lbs of bio per day into basic crude… More advanced processes such as Live resin can still be achieved with ease thanks to Thermodynamics. We utilize the solvent in way never before thought of in ways which increase the standard efficiency ten fold. We literally got rid of the ratio style of extraction and use a 1:1 bio to solvent. No more the old coffee maker style extraction but instead the more complicated espresso! Paving the way in the industry to the most efficient system possible!
Ok. Great pitch. Got any depth or like… pics?
Lol thank you “thermodynamics” without you we would all be… lost I guess
It is rather funny how much it is mis-understood… we are about to drop new tech across the board.
We completely removed the ratio… 1:1 all day. Can even do with less… +50c to -60c* Capable.
Here is our Behemoth, 1000# per day avg… The only Large Scale Propane / Butane / Mix Extraction System on the Market!! All products capable!
PSI Certified and UL Listing Pending…
U.S. Patent Pending Technology!
Multiple Systems in Operation!!!
Units in stock!
(Tape & Sharpie is applied upon pulling socks so as to track which sock came from what column).
10% bio:
instagram com/p/B7uceV6hIBU/
instagram com/p/B7ucuYgB2hb/
21% bio:
instagram com/p/B8WvCfbBNyz/
instagram com/p/B7g1remhni8/
someone gonna tell this guy what a CLS is?
It cycles the same solvent through the material until enough is enough?
I am thoroughly intrigued to see this one run
You’re not supposed to extract the tape/sharpie combo.
it appears to work by sending the same solvent through the biomass >>> WFE >> biomass several times, stripping the concentrate oil in the process.
That’s what I was thinking, too. Extract, recover, re-inject, and repeat
Did you try an FFE(i.e. Bizzy) before moving to a WFE?
Was there some reason an FFE was not satisfactory, or some significant benefit to the WFE?
Roflmfao no, we came out with the WFE for propane before bizzy came out with his FFE for butane. He seen us at the Loveland NOCO Hemp Expo then released his unit a few months later.
Surface Area is exponentially greater. Less residence time is needed. WFE’s are more efficient than FFE; less height is required. WFE’s are better at removing the volatile components such as propane. And more…
I have known about the problems faced for quite a while and have been working towards the most efficient possible system. We have completely removed the need for a ratio style of extraction. We use a phase transient solvent state to which takes on its own unique properties not seen with a pure liquid solvent. We invented a new technology to get away from the old regurgitated techniques.
Just wait for what is to come!!! The Behemoth is just one of our mid size models…
super/Saturated propane vapor?
the bottleneck is still that big ol’ recovery pump
Not if you know how to use it… then it is your biggest friend. We are recovering well below 3% of solvent remaining per 10# sock every run with exceptional ease (usually takes about 10 minutes to purge the entire system)…
Can easily recover a lb every two seconds… The big boy pump is actually only a mid size unit… much bigger are available.
Many other uses! Hush Hush
We are absolutely one of a kind! No other system on the market can operate the way our systems do! Butane / Propane / Mixture fully compatible, 100% Fully PSI Certified, Patent and UL Listing Pending!!!
It is almost like teaching people to be true wizards of thermodynamics! Once you get it, you kinda kick yourself in the ass for not seeing it earlier!
What size hoses fit on the recovery pump? ½" or ⅜"? Anything less than ½" and it’s a fail.
3/4" Convoluted for the T91, 2" convoluted for the bigger pump.
Where are you guys located?