hey just curious, if im making caviar should i still winterize with ethanol?? and if so why? im inline dewaxing already.
Let the analytics be your guide.
Be that potency & terpene profile, or the feedback from your in house organoleptics.
You winterize to remove the fats & waxes. Huffing them sucks.
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but doesn’t chilling inline for 3 hours and pulling thru a filter pull out the fats and lipids, why do it again with ethanol, also doesnt ethanol kill terpenes? and won’t it be impossible to crystalize after disolving in ethanol?
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ethanol definitely does not does not destroy terpenes. It requires higher temps to purge from your oil, and those higher temps can ruin the terp profile.
winterizing is certainly not needed when making caviar… There are plenty of lipids and waxes in the flower you are using, so even if you completely winterized the oil, you are still smoking lipids and waxes. Your inline filter will do just fine.
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It might.
I’ll paraphrase my last response: Pay a stranger for a COA, or ask a couple of friends to huff it +/- winterization…
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and how exactly does adding ethanol remove more fats and lipids then cryo temp butane?
if youre doing cold butane extractions youre probably not pulling a ton of wax like compounds.
you wont know until you try to winterize though, to see if anything crashes out. 10:1, -86, 200proof etoh, at least 24 hours, but up to 48 is ideal, and doing it at least twice depending on how good you are at filtering while maintaining that very cold temperature.
this has to do with relative solubilities of your solvent and solute. your cold butane might be good at dissolving a particular wax, whereas the particular wax does not dissolve in cold cold ethanol, and will be able to be filtered out.
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polarity.
the lipids are easier to filter out when in ethanol
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Polar and non polar…like dissolve like
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I’ve been curious about this as well. I guess it comes down to how low of a micron are you filtering it down to, do you use -80 acetone and dry ice slurry to really freeze those lipids and waxes on site. But as @Killa12345 stated to me A Dewaxer REDUCES the amount of fats and waxes, It does not ELIMINATE them
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first time you’ve used “cryo”.
please define what it means to you.
some folks use it to describe a -30C extraction. others would insist well below dry ice temps.
how about just same temp in ethanol vs butane?
given the polarity difference, you’ll see (empirically if you actually try it) less fats in the remaining resin after winterizing in ethanol.
you asked “why winterize?”
those who do, do it because it removes fats/waxes and improves the vape experience. if you can’t see or taste a difference, then there is no reason for you to winterize.
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as far as cryo i meen dry ice-isopropyl slurry in a sleeve
and i totally get winterizing if youre going to be distilling from there but as far as going for terp diamonds using jar tek with cold crash or pyrex tek caviar is anyone out there actually winterizing for that?
(OTS sauce tek)**
only folks making their own meds I would wager.
do you find anything on the filters in your dewaxer when you’re done? Have you tested it for cannabinoids?
I would recommend you destroy some cannabis in the name of science. the only way to really know how second solvent dewing is going to effect the terpene profile of your extraction is to try it.
if you’re extracting at that same temp you’re stalling in your dewater, I wouldn’t expect much in the way of waxes on your filters. winterizing a sample, and double checking the filtrate for cannabinoids would be the right way to play this game.
i dont have sleeves on material column i just freeze the material in the spools over night and run cold solvent through. it chases into the dewax chamber passively so i imagine the dewax chamber is much colder, i really only use nitro push to help it through the crc column.
i do pull a good bit of waxes off the filter, if i didnt i would probably skip dewax, but i have noticed a change in final product viscosity with vs without inline dewax.
i have winterized before, (usually just to post process) and noticed that it was very smooth but almost flavorless and either extremely stable or extremely sappy so i gave up on it
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thats what i meant really, the boiling point of terpenes is lower than that of ethanol right?
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Acetone goes -80 in a slurry and is 1$/6oz at the dollar tree.
If you wash an ⅛ to ¼ of fresh buds of the same strain with an unfiltered ethanol mixture (i.e. the wash you did to the bho) THEN do a winterization and a second filtration you’ll retain terps and end up with gold. I invented this Tek, no one here on this site seems to want to use it though.
After you do a bho extraction, wash with etoh right away, take that mixture and wash fresh buds of the same strain you extracted in the tube and then do the lost biologist filtering Tek , EXCEPT DO NOT USE FILTER MEDIAS JUST A WINTERIZATION AND A SECOND FILTRATION AFTER. Only possible way of keeping terps with winterizing bho, ime.
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yes, most terpenes… not all terpenes have the same BP though.
I’ll just leave this baby spoon here for anyone who may need it.
Ethanol Boiling Point: 173F // 78C
Terp Boiling Points:
https://www.steephill.com/science/terpenes
This is super interesting. I have been using a similar method just through trail and error to try to create something nice and high end for myself.
I do a BHO, Winterized at 10:1 and frozen for 24 hours. I then filter the solution through a 0.22u syringe filter.
As I understand it, or so I’ve been told, the Ethanol will hold onto the Terpenes and when purged, will go along with it.
Though I’ve been able to create some nice vapable carts this way that maintain some of the natural taste, I fear the product itself isn’t properly purged to a safe level. I find that if I continue on with open air purging even at low temps it will eventually go dark and taste like popcorn.