16 posts were merged into an existing topic: Toy Moderators pt2
I kinda thought it was the case that very experienced and technically savvy operators would be required to run the IE gear. Thatās why I like my hash robots so much. Highly skilled labor is difficult to find, and in our particular case, my time and talents wouldnāt be best applied being a valve jock day in and day out. Chillers are still cheaper than a six figure valve jockey.
This system really needs automation if itās going to be anything besides an F1 car that only a few skilled drivers can take to the limit and not wreck.
But hey, if thatās the model, do it, just my unsolicited 2cā¦
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Itās really not that hard to run.
Not trying to put anyone down but the staff I/my company oversaw hiring of and trained with at a few spots using Illuminated were at $18-22/hr.
Really easy if you target the right mechanically minded labor thatās not already seeking ācannabisā work, but certainly isnt offended by it either.
Like really really similar to alot of other industries.
Minimal training required, like 24-48 hours.
I would be as worried about staff safety and liability running any extractor depot w/ cauldron or bizzy bee, or ETS/MEP based machinery. Possibly more if theyāre prior to 2022 design or so, when most OEMās started prioritizing operator accessibility and optional safety features.
Lots of PRVās and over-rated components so its not like a ticking time bomb. Plus the Corkens/pumps flow paths are PRVād too and would pop if anything over pressured, way before any column or vessel PSI rating becomes a concern.
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I just find it hilarious all the thought that went into the chemical engineering, but they canāt find someone to weld their heat exchangers better than a trainee making pennies an hour in Guangdong.
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Appreciate the datapoint. Just to help put that 300 kg/shift number in context:
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Which IE model is it?
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What length shift are you referring to?
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Out of that team of ~6, how many are packing socks/loading material, how many are actually running the machine, and how many are on post-processing?
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Are you running the system basically as sold, or with extra chillers or other ancillary equipment/modifications added?
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Look Iām not certifying anything with my statements. Or anything like that.
But those welds are OK.
Pls donāt hate me Zach lol
There looks to be areas that were NOT passivated or electropolished after being welded, but pentration and lack of surface porosity or spatter shows they are OK welds from a welder set to proper tig amps/volts with enough shielding.
Alot of welds in the mechanical world that dont need to certified or dont have strict clients/mfg tolerances (tight cups, lack of detents on plates when tacking ends, etc) look just like this and they work most if not almost all the time through normal service lifes.
This weld should never be subjected to continuous high salinity, acidic, caustic or water/chloride solutions, so it not being passivated and having some detents on the end of tacks on plate-tube welds is OK, it all depends on your inspecting parties for ASME or peer reviews, and/or in house tolerance/finish requirements.
I have seen exotic cars that go 200 mph daily on track with nasty welds. Same with super luxury.
Anything aerospace, marine/sub-marine, medical, etc have much stricter finish requirements.
Typically GMP/Food contact safe surfaces SHOULD all be electropolished finishes, with little to no porosity/voids/non smooth surfaces on any welds or tacks. Eg, clean coin beads with a single termination point on all circles/seams.
These are questionable to 1000% be easily cleanable if ever taken over by mold, fungus, or other bio-accumulates that GMP handling facilities must usually account for in their CIP procedures.
I see a few circles with a few termination
Would get a B if it was submitted, unless a finish requirement was stated, on a weld test.
May fail if a finish or sanitary requirement was stated.
It likely would handle all pressure/fluid loads, but it is barely passing as a sanitary weld.
Polishing alone wonāt fix it.
**Stared at the seams a but more, the welder either sat at each puddle too long/too hot or had his amps set too high. At least it penetrated 1000% 
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Those welds would not pass visual testing under b31.3 imo, way out of the bevel, an arc strike thatās just sitting right there, looks like maybe some undercut as well
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Sorry 
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Where did you get that picture of me?
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Are they? Iāve never seen such shitty welds on a machine at that price. How much more money would need to be spent to get them done properly? Is the profit margin so minute that they need to accept such a shitty weld to make the system profitable? I doubt it..
Itās one thing to have a shitty weld on a Ferrari youāre not producing consumable products with under intense pressure, being ran by people making McDonaldās wages.. thereās a massive difference between an ATV with mediocre welds and a half mil pressure vessel system thatās running your day-to-day biz and the risks that come with shoddy welds.
I can justify my F40 having ugly welds under the hood as long as it stays together at 200mph, but producing and manufacturing consumables on a system with shoddy welds under massive pressure is a whole nother ball game.
Maybe Iām a bit of a diva. Sanitary should be across the board when youāre spending the money theyāre asking. Itās not difficult.
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And Iāll point out @Zack_illuminated is still yet to justify his companyās QA/QC on this component. Let alone the other faulty components like gauges and cheap leaky valves.
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I wonder what the condenser would do if it was leaking propane into the coolant, or process gas into the refrigerant loop with the projak configuation
All the things I pointed out can cause cracks potentially, especially with a bunch of thermal cycling
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Big dawg pulling out the ASME references. Respect
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Iāve seen similar welds degrade / start cracking under atmospheric pressure.. I can only imagine what happens over and over under multiple cycles in this kind of system.
Our original CIP processes with the original factory welds using dry steam to sterilize the mogul wore down the welds to the point of leakage after less than a year on one holding vessel.. and this is just gummy production, let alone actual extraction processes under pressure.
Those welds should have rejected the cert IMO. Sometimes it only takes a wink and a handshake with the right person to get these things in the field certified. Iād never put my name on that plate.
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Youāve seen stainless steel welds, clearly not oxidized or with porosity that have cracked and degraded at atmospheric pressures and standard temperatures?
Dude dont get me wrong but youāre just shit talking.
Iāve seen 50% of labs out there running w/ China welded Xtractor depot, fake electropolish peeling and underlying welds pitting and rusting.
This is not that, its real stainless that I am sure Zach can provide a materials test report from as its USA or other domestic partner provided stainless steel.
Really weird, I mean Boris has equipment pitting and rusting from 2018-2019 Iāve seen in labs now too.
U got an issue with Illuminated?
If the weld was clearly not shielded/surface oxidation present, had porosity, lot of splatter, excess penetration, etc. Then I would be of concern.
This was just a lazy welder and EVERY company has this happen sometimes.
It passes structural and minimal required sanitary guidelines.
Youāre nitpicking.
I can bitch about my tesla car door and body panels not matching/seams not flush all day and Tesla Service gonna tell me to GTFO or pay out of pocket as its cosmetic, not structural.
Car may look like shit in your opinion, but Iām not dying and its driving itself fine.
Richest man made it work for his companies QC.
Thereās always haters.
The machine worked well, unless you are stupid and canāt read a P&ID and hook shit up in reverse.
I think youāre trying to find any vice to judge it upon.
Iāll go back and find some janky photos of some bad ETS jacketing welds back in the day, or some rusty Bizzy Bees for u to compare.
I canāt tell you how many labs Iāve been to that ETS set up SOOOOO jacked up. Violating local plumbing code, electrical code, etcā¦
Illuminated provides a PERFECT site diagram draft with your booth form factor used for their layout.
Give you a full idea where to lay hard pipe, run compressor lines, chiller lines drops, etcā¦
Iāve seen ETS recommend PEX and sharkbite to be used at like 50 labs
Drip drip drip dripā¦
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Iām sure I can dig the tank out and show you the weld leaking through the āsanitaryā weld and out through the jacket outlet if you think Iām āshit talkingāā¦ lol
Can he? Heās ducked the weld question for weeks now. I donāt doubt he could, but I havenāt seen it.. if you think thatās a good weld then I donāt know what to tell you, you must come from the ātraditionalā market.
Not at all, in fact weāve been cordial in every interaction on here and I think the idea is impressive.. the execution, not so much. This is not a difficult weld to do properly. I can show you every tube in shell Iāve got laying around not hooked up, not one of them are as janky as that.
By all means, please do. I donāt have any stake in any of these companies nor do I care if they go out of business. Iād go with Paul Mueller Co or another company in that area before buying any prefab machines from these cannabis focused companies. Especially if Iām spending $500k+ā¦
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You seem emotional lol.. I havenāt criticized the design, nor would I be in any position to. Iām not an engineer, although I do sometimes stay at a Holiday Inn and have to become one.
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U mad bro?
Disagree, have you actually ever tig welded?
These tube in shells are some of the hardest thin material and concealed space welds you can do. Shielding gas must be properly plumbed and plugged to ensure proper envelope of the weld zone, and amperage and voltage must be perfect as well as your tip sharpened/switched often.
Do you need to have built a helicopter to realize this is a pretty shitty job?
Cool. I can show you 10 or 15 sanitary heat exchangers I have laying around with perfect welds all from multiple different manufacturers, Chinese and otherwise. Maybe you arenāt too good at it 
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Good welding shops make mistakes, the only difference is we donāt let it get out the door. Itās hard to maintain QC standards on thousands of welds on fabrication when its not being built in your shop. Not to mention, if your not a high quality fabrication shop how do you even know what is a proper weld for that application? Iām reading a lot of bad welding information here lolā¦Just get an ASME stamp and set your standard high. This is standard in other industries but unfortunately not in ours. Quality and Safety > Profit.
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