Whats the accurate real world statistics on Illumintated Extractors

Since this one was actually in operation, it would be really useful to hear real-world numbers from the seller side.

What kind of full shift or full day throughput were you seeing, and what crew size did it take to maintain that pace? Also curious whether that included packing/loading/unloading, and what biomass, solvent ratio, and product target those numbers were based on.

Also curious about the thermal side of this setup. The ProJak DX marketing makes it sound like the system replaces traditional heaters/chillers, but the media you shared appears to show a fairly substantial MTA chiller.

Was that chiller part of the Behemoth/ProJak setup, or was it for something else in the lab?

If it was part of the extractor package, what was it serving specifically?

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Yes, this is one of the older model R600’s that still used a water heater but has the ProJak upgrade on the columns. We still supply an MTA with all systems, just a very small one compared to a traditional system that is used to correct for user error and conditions that are not perfect.

Edit: There are times, such as when you are cooling and not extracting that you ARE creating heat that needs to be removed. Newer models sill need the MTA when not extracting but once cycling starts I put in a heat exchanger to cancel the utility heat out so at that point the MTA has pretty much no load on it
 pre-subcooler before the utility sub-cooler.

On all systems I tie in both sides (process and utility) into the same MTA in parallel.

We are also putting together an automation package to reduce cost of operation for all of our systems currently.

I also just got word my other evaporator/condenser pending patent will be allowed as it was examined via the same senior level examiner as my last heating and refrigeration patent. :clinking_beer_mugs:

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Also curious about numbers after hearing several systems having issues with the advertised numbers. Did the projack work for you, I knew of 2 people who had to ditch it completely?

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I also know of a user that had to use standard chillers on their system as the solvent based cooling didn’t work and they had a horrible experience with tech-support and customer service

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Could you please specify specific people? I know our clients really well since I have done nearly every install/training for every machine we have sold. Last time people tried to say this they also couldn’t say who the mystery people were?

There was one that had hooked their MTA up backwards (could see a falling waterfall from the baffles instead of solid cold form proper flow direction). They couldn’t figure out how to get that part right and they did do a whole revamp of their system in the end. But this is the only one who couldn’t figure it out. They were quite problematic. Refused to let us swap the chiller hoses because they ‘know they hooked it up right’ while the images they provided showed the waterfall + baffles which should not happen if the flow is correct. Correct flow does not have a waterfall effect - the MTA fluid follows a zig-zag path through the baffles, so you should see uniform cold across the entire condenser body. What their images showed was the liquid just falling straight through each zone instead of following the baffle path, which is only possible if the flow direction is reversed. They made plenty of fire extract with our system that was posted then later taken down before deciding to completely change the system.

Every system has hit numbers except the Oregon Manticore that the sock packers were on their phones instead of packing socks, we were constantly waiting on socks. They defaulted on payments, and despite multiple opportunities we arranged to resell the machine on their behalf, they refused every one.

There was also a client who expected the machine to accept biomass and output distillate - and when it couldn’t do that, claimed the machine didn’t work. That’s like buying a car and complaining it won’t fly. Our extractor extracts. Distillation and post-processing are separate steps, as they are with every system on the market.

I am happy to discuss with anyone. Open book here.

I had a major mechanical failure on a $1.8M piece of equipment with our biggest client (Corken shaft bearings rolled out of the 791), I physically relocated to Florida for 3 months until it was resolved, got them trained and happy, and now they do demos with us to help sell more units. :flexed_biceps:

That’s the complete opposite of what a company with bad tech and bad support looks like. That’s what real commitment to a customer looks like. Most companies would have sent a tech for a week and called it good. :person_shrugging: :goat: :victory_hand:

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For anyone seriously looking at this unit – the upgrade path is straightforward and the machine has a lot of life left in it. The main differences from current spec are the elimination of the water heater and reduced utility heat load, which is a meaningful operational and installation footprint difference but nothing that can’t be addressed.

Worth knowing for anyone considering an upgrade down the road: the chiller on this unit is correctly sized for the system as-is. But if you upgrade and eliminate the water heater, your heat load drops – meaning you’d actually need less MTA capacity at that point. MTA can pull real load data from the system under full operation and spec exactly what you need based on actual numbers, not guesswork. You may find you can right-size down and recoup some cost there as well.

Happy to talk through any of it. Open book as always. :call_me_hand:

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Every time I get into this with you, I have to text my friend and he has to ask his lawyer and his lawyer tells me not to talk shit to you yet because they haven’t served you.

They aren’t the only people planning on suing you currently either.

I’ve been skeptical about this shit for years and you couldn’t even produce it before and after COA on material you ran, I kind of stopped taking your company, seriously as an option for a licensed equipment after that

For this price point Mach is fully automated and supported by an actual company not a couple of wooks. It is a no brainer.

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Well you have narrowed it down to only one possibility. He always kept going on about all these people that were suing us when there aren’t any.

Your speaking about the one that expected the machine to take in bio and output disty and was pissed when it didn’t work. He still owes the people that worked for him $60k each.

We told him to decarb THCA and that’s better than disty and then he turned around and said “so how do we make disty” and refused to sell the decarbed THCA while making posts about “fk disty”.

He didn’t even buy the machine from us, he entered a lab that already had the equipment with his license then complained when it made fire THCa.

I personally know the operator that was running the unit. He loves it. :person_shrugging:

Edit: that was the machine that had the downgraded compressor so it was only rated for 12 and a half pounds an hour or 100 lb a day that was pushing nearly 200 lb a day.

@dabsahoy aka joe was the one who confirmed this unknowingly. Then I found out about him through other people in the state. :person_shrugging:

Second edit: That system never had the ProJak removed and has the standard mini-10 MTA chiller that we supply with all 091 / 191 combo’s.

It is also going back into service from what I have been told


Long story short, is that it doesn’t work on the smaller systems. I’ve got a lot of thoughts on why, but that’s more of an essay than I want to write. But yeah maybe it’s time for the expose now
incoming!

Startup to get things cold(ish) Long video

(lack of) Chilling under load

That’s me. Literally every single thing you’re saying here is incorrect except for 'deciding to completely change (fix) the system (though context here: after MONTHS AND FUCKING MONTHS OF TRYING TO WORK WITH YOU TO GET THIS OPERATING CORRECTLY). They were not fucking hooked up backwards. This was not my first rodeo. I’ve been running hydrocarbon extraction for over a decade now. Supply line (Cold) is blue piping. Return line (hot) on the heat exchanger was red piping. Supply goes to the port on the bottom of the heat exchanger, return from the top port. Once we wrap the lines in insulation we mark them with goddamn (also color coded) arrows so you know flow direction when you’re climbing around in the ceiling while hooking things up. On their 4th trip out trying to get this thing working their guy jacob had the “brilliant” idea that our chiller was hooked up backwards and that’s why we couldn’t hit temps (certainly not the undersized utility loop recovery pump they pair their system with that physically cannot keep up with the vapor volume generated, certainly not their garbage ass welds on their heat exchangers, it’s definitely us who are the idiots). I told him it 100% was not, but like ok well that would be an easy thing to check right? Let’s “run the lines” ie follow 'em back from the chiller. He (illuminated’s tech) did that, and then agreed they weren’t backwards! But then they re-decided (once we sent demand letters to fix their broke-ass shit) that they are in fact hooked up backwards, that we voided our warranty for making “modifications” (adding sintered discs, a vacuum manifold, replacing their garbage-ass valves which all leak constantly, replacing their garbage-ass gauges which failed constantly - you’d be running and literally hear a “ping” as the needle on your pressure gauge just fucking falls off and sits on the bottom of the housing, small things like that. Bold claim though that replacing some gauges or valves voids warranty).

Anyway, so we’re like yeah, let’s have the plumbers that ran our lines in the first place certify it. I don’t know how you can get “waterfalling” when the supply runs to the bottom port of a heat exchanger and the return runs from the top port, but Zack has a different understanding of physics. How’s that going for you by the way bud? Got your Anti-gravity machine you were going on about up and running? What about that free energy from water system? Or any of the other batshit insane stuff you were on about?

I mean if the chiller bit is the claim they want to hang their hat on why does zach claim you don’t even need it?!

Look, I’m not a prideful person. If the only thing I needed to do to fix this system that was basically non functional for 6 months was swap the chiller lines configuration I would have taken my lumps, done a mea-culpa and moved the fuck on with my life (not spent another 150k fixing their trash). Dude I literally pulled the supply line off the bottom port and showed it to y’all pumping into a bucket while it drained out the reservoir on the MTA, how would the return line do that?! Bunch of clown-ass wooks over there I swear to god


But hey, if illuminated was honest about their claims or performance they wouldn’t sell any systems. Even the guy they sent out that was running a system successfully from another lab (who yeah, has chillers hooked up to his btw) spent an hour on ours before saying yeah this thing has issues, and was unable to get it working.
He was actually one of the better guys that illuminated had come out
man their tech was a crack up.

Spent almost 6 months beating our head against a wall trying to get this resolved with illuminated (hell at one point we’re running it with dry ice heat exchangers like it’s 20goddamn14) before saying fuck it, ripped the whole thing apart, re-built it as a more traditional (i.e. actually functional) system, pretty much used the base frame, and some of the steel. Complete loss.

I’ve talked to so many other groups who were having the same issues. We started legal proceedings against 'em and were talking to other groups about forming a class action but our lawyer came back with, and I quote, “yeah we can proceed and probably win, but having spoken with the council for some of these other groups that are further along in legal proceedings, they (illuminated) don’t have adequate funds or assets we’d able to recover damages from, it’s not worth proceeding in our estimation.”

We took the loss of time, clients, and output on the chin, ate the expense of defuckulating their broken-ass system, and moved on with our lives.

Last edit: I was informed in writing of the following in response to our initial legal demand letter: [company name redacted for privacy] will immediately cease and desist from disparaging IE, its employees, and its products, in any way – directly or indirectly. Any disparaging
communication by [company name redacted for privacy] on or after the date of this letter, whether
in public or in private communications with third parties, would be a breach of the
Agreement. As a result of the breach, IE may promptly seek all appropriate
injunctive relief and damages in a court in Colorado.

so let me say one thing: ITS NOT LIBEL IF ITS TRUE. Come at me bro, discovery will be so fun <3

Last last edit: Eskerium_Devin sorry mate, probably should have chosen a better venue to air this then your post trying to sell your system. Didnt’ think that one through fully, my B.

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@Zack_illuminated I’ve spoken to others as well. It’s not an isolated incident. Great concept but hard to replicate in real life settings

Hey Mr.Clean - appreciate you finally posting, I know that took a while. Let me address this accurately.

On the chiller direction: A plumber certifying that pipes are physically connected without leaks is not the same as certifying correct flow direction through the baffle path. Those are two completely different things. The photos YOU sent US after that plumber visit still showed the waterfall effect in the baffles. An invoice doesn’t change what your own photos showed. The waterfall effect is only possible with reversed flow — that’s not my understanding of physics, that’s how baffles work. And for the record — every single system we sell comes with an MTA chiller. Not one system leaves without one. It did appear in one of your videos that you had it connected correctly at one point.

On the modifications: We have a certified parts list. This isn’t arbitrary - it’s tied to our design specification and certification. When you replaced valves, gauges, and added sintered discs outside that certified parts list, we legally and technically cannot stand behind the performance of that system anymore. Our systems have to use certified parts for a reason — incorrect gasket materials, improper pressure ratings, and non-spec components can create an unsafe system that fails and could potentially cause bodily harm due to unrated parts. Any serious equipment manufacturer operating with pressurized hydrocarbon systems operates the same way. It’s not our machine at that point, and more importantly it’s not a safe machine at that point. It might be pressure rated but it might not be solvent rated, but ultimately it must be on our certified parts list for us to warranty its operation. Once that changes it is no longer to our design spec and the warranty is void. If PSI walked in there to review the system and it wasn’t to our spec then there WOULD be a problem and they would flag the system to be locked down until the corrections were made back to design spec. Just how regulatory oversight works. :person_shrugging:

On temps: If your system was running elevated pressures, that directly raises the boiling point of the solvent which limits how cold the system can get. That’s basic refrigeration physics. The question is what were your system pressures during those runs and how did the unauthorized components affect system dynamics. Before the relationship became untenable we were also preparing to offer vacuum augmentation on your 191 - the same approach I used here to get an 091 down to -112c. We had a path forward for you. That door closed when the system was modified beyond our design and the relationship became hostile. At 0psi it is at -44c for propane according to the NIST charts we use, 75 micron is -150c.

On the new subcooler: The tech has continued to advance. We recently developed a new subcooler design - Mo was the first person to test it. The same Mo that came out to your facility and recognized that there was something wrong with your system. He runs a successful operation with the standard MTA chiller on his system and is now helping validate our latest architecture. Make of that what you will.

On “batshit insane” tech:

As for free energy - I never said that. I said the heat loop doesn’t close, meaning the system absorbs heat that is not accounted for in the compressor vapor mass. That’s not free energy, that’s refrigeration architecture. The fact that you characterized it as free energy tells me everything about your comprehension of what I actually said.

The water separation is a physical process that can be defined with physics. Ever pull apart magnets with your hands? Same physical effect, different application. Polarized molecules are affected by electric fields - there’s no getting around that. A better word is fragmentation, the same process that happens in a mass spectrometer when water is split into Hâș, Oâș, and OHâș ions. That’s documented analytical chemistry, not batshit insane. :person_shrugging:

You spent 6 months on this, ripped it apart, and rebuilt it - but kept the base frame and the steel. Make that make sense if it was a complete loss.

I relocated to Florida for 3 months for our biggest client when we had a major mechanical failure. That’s what we do. The door was always open on our end — right up until the system was modified beyond our design and the relationship became untenable. :person_facepalming:

Cheers! :clinking_beer_mugs:

Still holding to the chiller hooked up backwards idea huh? yeah so those are install notes added to the write up they provided on the verification inspection we did at our expense to show you that it was hooked up correctly, they (HJACKS Plumbing) were the firm who worked with me on hooking it up after the original plumbers we had come out to run process piping cocked up the job and we had leaks when testing. We were very careful to ensure piping direction was correct. They then came out again later to reverify that it was in fact hooked up correctly to manufacturer specifications which they noted. At no point did we ever change process piping or orientation, just multiple verifications that it isn’t correct. When you were out at our facility and we were having issues still, how did you not notice if it was supposedly hooked up backwards? Seems like the kind of thing you would have caught? The first we heard about that being y’all determination of root cause issue was on visit number 4 when jacob decided that that was the problem, then we ran the lines with him, and he said they were not hooked up backwards and the issue was our MTA not getting temp (before tearing it down and then leaving with it disassembled!) The MTA worked/works just fine, still running it now btw.

>The photos YOU sent US after that plumber visit still showed the waterfall effect in the baffles.

man, from the quality of build I saw on the components that we were able to disassemble I’m guessing you just forgot to put some baffles in. Are you proud of your construction quality on this heat exchanger?

It did appear in one of your videos that you had it connected correctly at one point.

Zack
from day one to day ‘fuck this stupid POS we’re ripping it apart and doing it right’ the chiller lines never got moved in configuration. They were the same throughout. At no point did we change them. We pulled the supply side off at one point to show jacob that it is infact connected to the outlet from teh chiller (literally pumping buckets of chiller fluid out) They were not hooked up backwards in the beginning, middle, or end. You were just grasping at any straw you could find to not stand behind your defective equipment.

>We have a certified parts list. This isn’t arbitrary - it’s tied to our design specification and certification. When you replaced valves, gauges, and added sintered discs outside that certified parts list, we legally and technically cannot stand behind the performance of that system anymore
incorrect gasket materials, improper pressure ratings, and non-spec components can create an unsafe system that fails and could potentially cause bodily harm due to unrated parts.

Yeah, I know changing components technically brings a system out of certified specification. I’m sure no one here makes any modifications to their equipment from OEM stock. I mean, how dare I swap your gauges with ones that actually keep the needles on? or swap out the valves that leak hash and solvent out of the handles with quality swagelok components
I mean that would be dangerous!!! /s Better stick to super safe components like these that you provided.
You want to in any degree of seriousness try to tell me that this voids warranty and caused the system issues?

>On temps: If your system was running elevated pressures, that directly raises the boiling point of the solvent which limits how cold the system can get. That’s basic refrigeration physics. The question is what were your system pressures during those runs and how did the unauthorized components affect system dynamics.

it didn’t work stock, it didn’t work right when you were out, it didn’t work when mo came out, it didn’t work after pump replacements, and it didnt’ work later
but somehow I doubt adding a sintered disc to the filtration on the ISS or adding an (EXTERNAL) manifold for vacuum is what cocked this thing up but please, enlighten me.

Before the relationship became untenable we were also preparing to offer vacuum augmentation on your 191

you were preparing to CHARGE us, i.e. SELL us an additional vaccum augmentation thing that you were still working on developing, to get the system to (theoretically) do what it should have been able to do from day one. And yeah at that point I was done with y’all. Certainly wasn’t going to keep shoving money in to a hole to maybe possibly fix it. Was scraping the bottom of my ‘faith in Illuminated fixing their shit’ barrel at that point, sorry about that. Can’t imagine why that was


At 0psi it is at -44c for propane according to the NIST charts we use, 75 micron is -150c.

cool chart man. Appreciate the refresher on the boiling temperature of propane. Sure would have been nice to see it able to maintain those pressure levels during operation.

>We recently developed a new subcooler design

one without pressure blowthrough holes in it? Groundbreaking tech I’m sure. How long did that one take y’all to figure out?

>The fact that you characterized it as free energy tells me everything about your comprehension of what I actually said.

Yeah If I’m being honest man, your ramblings had the same energy as the shit I heard from tweakers on the subway. I was doing a lot of nodding and saying uh-huh uh-huh while you went on about it all. Good luck with the antigrav tech though. You get that nobel prize in physics and I will, and this is legally binding, give you $10,000. I’ll wait.

You spent 6 months on this, ripped it apart, and rebuilt it - but kept the base frame and the steel. Make that make sense if it was a complete loss.

we kept the actual physical frame the system was mounted on, a few of the columns, random fittings, and the GD1. Every other single component was replaced, swapped, reconfigured, and defuckulated. All that steel is gathering dust until I haul it out for scrap value. Spent almost 200k fixing it, putting in chillers, redoing process piping/components with actually safe ones, and getting it certified and peer reviewed. I can’t even begin to accurately calculate how much we lost in opportunity cost for our time being down on processing during the roll out for adult-use/recreational, in lost contract processing clients, in lost yields, and in lost sanity.

Works great now though, and I even have fiber optic lighting in my columns!

I relocated to Florida for 3 months for our biggest client when we had a major mechanical failure. That’s what we do. The door was always open on our end

We were BEGGING y’all to get someone that knew what he was doing out to get our shit working right around that same time, y’all couldn’t do it because you had to be down for installing the bigger system for clients. It was a shitshow from the start and if you think y’all did right by us you’re more delusional than I thought and that’s saying something.

Man, this wasn’t a case of buyers remorse (I mean
I definitely felt some remorse for being dumb enough to buy it from you). we were so stoked when this thing first came in, but it was endless headaches and non-performance
backed by the absolute bare-minimum of what could be classified as manufacturer support and an absolute :clown_face: show of attempts to fix things. and still, even now, you’re on about the fucking chiller hookups
what needed to happen, what I asked so many times to happen, was to have gotten you and jeff out on site in jan or feb at the absolute latest to overhaul the thing and get it working instead of week after week of piddly “oh well here’s a new shim kit try that, oh ok that didn’t work, let’s try this, oh ok that didn’t work, have you tried burning sage to banish the demons?”. All we wanted from day 1 was a working system that came vaugely close to the performance advertised and paid for, and you fundamentally failed at every step of the way in delivering. You should be ashamed of yourself, not getting up on future and continuing to peddle your bullshit. Anyway, I’m done now.

Cheers! (but you should probably lay off the :clinking_beer_mugs:)

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So one end of that heat exchanger is segmented to divide flow in to 3 segments (a one half, and two one-quarter segments. And the other end is only segmented in half.

Do you happen to have pictures of the mating parts that heat exchanger attaches to?

Edit: I understand the top cap that you are holding with your hand now, and so now I understand half of the flow.. Only the right side feeds in or out and the left side is “sealed”, and the left side hx is just completing the loop of flow going up and down probably where the divider is on the opposing side.

That is an interesting concept, but I do not see how flow would stay segmented through the compressible gasket area. Since you can’t have the center divider wall protrude upwards past the top of the flange, and the gasket is compressible, surely there will be flow over the center wall at thin height of the gasket area, if much pressure differential exists?

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Yeah and the pea sized weld blowouts didn’t help much either.

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Good questions – that was an older design that we’ve since revamped twice. We’ve settled on a much cleaner 19 tube path forming 76 feet of flow path, and increased the jacket from 4" to 6" for additional liquid volume.

On performance – clients running the current design typically see 0psi to 5psi during operation, which corresponds to -44c to -37c propane temperature per NIST charts, with the highest typically seen being around 10psi which is -29c. Our Phoenix client on a 191 has been holding jackets at 0psi throughout the entire day with the new injection subcooler.

The longer flow path is the key difference – the original design had limited length and the liquid didn’t have enough residency time to properly transfer heat and cool down before injection. The 76 foot path solves that. Injection temperatures are significantly colder than the previous design as a result.

Worth clarifying – we never claimed injection temperature equals jacket temperature. That’s an over-assumption of our quoted spec. The jacket reaching -40c doesn’t mean the solvent injects at -40c. Solvent temperature at injection depends on flow path length, contact time, and operating conditions – which is exactly what the new design addresses. :victory_hand:

You should try responding to his claims because that sounds really bad for you guys. If someone eventually had to just hook up chillers and stop communicating with you because nothing you did worked, and you couldn’t get your system to function somewhere that is an absolute failure on your part and should be the biggest cautionary tale in this industry as to why people should never give you a fucking nickel.

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When I was there the last time the machine operated as expected albeit a bit slower. It reached -10psi (-50c) and stayed around 0psi all day while I was on site and the machine seemed to be operating relatively correct, just a little slow. The raising temp / not pulling down fast is typically the compressor packing needs tightened or replaced or the MTA is off. Just dealt with that on another machine after they pulled propane into the compressor then it wouldn’t get as cold and would struggle. Tightened the packing until the leak stopped and voilà.

Only after I left did their machine stop working again (Ohio) and the temps were getting out of control so I have no clue what was different after I left vs when I was there.

Also, we never said the injection temp would be the same as the jacket temp. That’s an over-assumption of our quoted spec. The jacket reaching -40c to -50c doesn’t mean the solvent injects at -40c to -50c. Solvent temperature at injection depends on flow path length, contact time, and operating conditions – which is exactly what the new design addresses.

That seems like the source of the issues. Expected it to do something outside of what we quote it to do. I do remember the problem. The MTA condenser would be completely iced over in the morning but once you put a load on it and it warmed up slightly that was when the waterfall would appear. If the chiller wasnt providing the little bit of work like it should, then as soon as you put a load on it the temps would rise. Running without a MTA your not hitting -40 to -50c
 more like -10 to -20c without the MTA.

It felt more like troubleshooting a phantom problem.

IMG_2956

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I mean, what would give folks the impression that your system is capable of actually getting cold? Surely not the numerous public claims you have made to the contrary?

Oh wait, no you’re right, I’m the idiot! I should have known that what you actually meant when you say the system can get to -60 in minutes that what you meant is that the jacket could achieve that temperature (it takes almost an hour btw for initial chill down), just not actually maintain it while under active load or actually chill your solvent during injection to below freezing because the design on your process inline subcooler was flawed when you sold it to us (I mean if not, then why fix it? I thought it worked perfectly? Right Zach? RIGHT?)

It felt more like troubleshooting a phantom problem.

It felt more like you all had no goddamn idea how to fix the problems we had from day 1.
This is literally the meeting notes (btw I have the recording!) from after your guy came out from initial training.
"Refrigeration system not reaching desired temperatures:

Lighthouse Sciences Mail - Recap of your meeting with Illuminated Extractors.pdf (234.8 KB)

But wait, that was on the bone stock system
I thought you said it worked fine? Wasn’t it that we ruined your perfect design by changing things like your leaking valves and faulty gauges that it didnt work? Or was it the chiller being hooked up backwards (which again, wasn’t, professionally installed by plumbers, who came out and recertified it, and further, if it was hooked up backwards boy you’d think that’s something you would have noticed or caught during the what
four days you were out?)

Dude, your team couldn’t even build a goddamn BOX correctly. Not ONE screw made it throught into the lid. Don’t know why you think you could make a functioning piece of industrial processing equipemnt.

But hey, keep coming back man. Just remember
I’VE GOT RECEIPTS

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