Vincent has over 200 presses in operation in the Hemp industry across the US.
We recently performed an interesting test. The test was to determine if a particular filter we were testing could be used to remove waxes. We took out the extract liquor that was placed in the freezer. With a temperature gun we found the liquid to be 1 F (-17 C), but no waxes were visible. The waxes need to be crystalized for the filter to work. We then took some dry ice and cooled the liquid down to -30C, -40C, -50C and still no waxes were visible. At -50C the liquid was thick and looked to have a consistency closer to milk. We cooled it down as low as possible and ran it through the filter. No waxes were collected. We are beginning to think that waxes in extract/press liquor are getting confused with mud or clay that comes in from the field.
I have seen a test on this forum that takes waxes and ethanol, mixes them in a test tube at ambient, and et’ them sit overnight. The waxes didnt’t dissolve.
What do you think?
Is there anyone running a Vincent press that can confirm the above or are you seeing waxes in the press liquor AFTER all fines are removed?
given that you took your “extract liquor” to -50C, I’m going to assume you that you pressed ethanol + dry biomass, not just field fresh biomass.
given that you put it in a freezer to achieve -17C, I’ll assume the extraction was done above that, and probably at rm temp.
a rm temp extraction with 190 or 200 proof ethanol should absolutely pull fats that can be dropped out by winterization.
however, that press liquor needs to be concentrated first…you want about a 10:1 ratio of solvent to resin. some go as low as 5:1, so they can winterize a little warmer.
assuming you used 1 gal/lb of 10% biomass, you’re looking at about 45g in 3.75liters, so you’re almost 10x too dilute to expect those waxes to drop efficiently (not an uncommon mistake).
you also want to freeze overnight. not just drop the temp till it hits target. crystal formation generally takes a finite amount of time…
Like @cyclopath said, winterizing isn’t just about getting the tincture cold. It also takes time, how much of which is dependent on the temperature it was extracted, temperature being winterized at, concentration of tincture, and time spent at winterizing temperature. At normal freezer temperatures (0 to -10C), it can take two or more days to get the fats to precipitate. I have seen people go as long as a week to make sure they have all crashed.
It is also then important to keep your tincture free from agitation prior to filtration. The lipids will fall back into solution with mixing or agitation, even when cold. If you move it around too much trying to get it to the filter, you could mix fats back into solution. Warming the solution can also do this. Once the tincture warms, it wants those fats back, so one should also be sure to perform the filtration cold.
What are you winterizing in and how do you move the solution to the screw press? I’ve always been a fan of fermentation tanks into reverse osmosis water filters. The tank cost about 5k (stainless), freezer 10k, water filters with vac pump and vessel is under a grand. Let it sit in the -20f freezer for 24 hours and then filter through the string wound water filters.
nobodies said/asked what the ratio of ethanol/biomass is when the “winterizing” is taking place… is it 5/1 8/1 10/1 ? that also plays a role in the time allotted for fats/lipids
What people are dealing with is mostly composed of plant waxes.
This are for sure not mud, and no clay.
This plant material is white, and fully disolves in hot (above 50c sure) ethanol/methanol/acetone/oils etc.
Clays are micro (even nano in thickness) crystals, and do not dissolve in such solvents, these get suspended. To get it fully disdolved, you neef to use very strong acid such as hot boiling H2SO4 10%, and you need also HF to attack the silicon sheets.
The issue you are facing there is that in a crude extract, waxes are not agregated yet. So they pass through your filter. Whay you could attempt, is melting the crude extract, and then cool it down very slowly, only dexrrasing few degrees or less per hour. But then you may also see precipitation of the main cannabinoid then…
I spoke with Rob, the ethanol extract was way too dilute, like KOTK said, 4:1 or max 8:1 is ideal.
I would try the process with methanol as your extraction solvent. The waxes will crash at -20°C; you may even be able to dewax at room temp using methanol and the press + filtration.
Thanks a ton for all the responses. Most that buy our presses figure all this out on their own and don’t really provide feedback as to what works and what doesn’t. This is expected in a race everyone is trying to win. Being in Florida we can’t legally do most of these processes to test.
I love this site for the immense knowledge base. Just reading the above, me someone who has never extracted can learn and better explain the process to prospects who are interested. I’m always honest with people at my lack of knowledge in extracting and when asked questions I can’t answer or am not qualified to answer I tell it like it is.
This post stemmed from me reading a trip report and questioning what was discovered or what we thought we might have discovered.
I’m hesitant to devote any time or resources to non-certified organic solvents. I firmly believe that the future of hemp is in certified organic products.
Check out Ecosce.com for room temperature winterization and solvent recovery. Infinite salability on 30 amps of power per 750L to 1000L per hour of tincture/miscella.
Hi EV, Shoot me an email at noah@ecosce.com or call our sales line at 844-644-820, and we can discuss pricing for your scale, whatever it may be. Thanks.