It seems like I was misinformed on how beeswax acts as an emulsifier.
If you are not using a oil with 96% mct+ please do. Your body absorbs more fats based on its mct count. You will absorb nearly double the cannabinoids stepping away from budders and using high quality fractionation oils, Lecithin aids that absorption. Pure mct, fractioned coconut oil and my new favorite fractioned avocado oil are all effective and besides how awesomely thin avocado oil is im sure you know how people react to that being its carrier oil with extra omegas and such.
Papa and barkly does the same process with one of the oils I described.
Glycerine/fatty acid esters are what you guys want to be looking at (not glycerine on its own). Less oily, lighter, better shelf life, flavorless, any viscosity you want, and the absorption rates are much faster (or slower, if thatâs what youâre after). You have the stability of an oil with the absorption of water solubles. Look at carrier oils for pharmaceuticals and you will quickly be presented with dozens of FDA approved options that all have their own unique properties.
We are on Future4200 and all everyone comes up with is vegetable glycerine, MCT oil, and ethanol. I thought we were more original than that. Iâd say to just PM me but I feel like Iâve already made it pretty easy to find several better delivery methods.
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@stoopkid What are your thoughts on PEG 400? I see that a lot in phama literature. Also PEG 2000.
It does not, it uses EtOH/Propylene glycol. Glycerin is a shitty solvent for Cannabinoids.
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I agree that glycerin is a shitty solvent for cannabinoids however this application doesnât use glycerin as a solvent. The ethanol is the solvent.
I was looking directly at the manufacturerâs package ingredient list and it listed glycerin and not propylene glycol. It may have been changed since then but both ingredients are common in medications and both have similar properties and can be interchangeable. 
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PEG 400 is pretty common but Iâm pretty sure PEG 2000 is basically a solid or powder. Iâve never seen that one.
Watch out with PEG as it has a lot of different grades and potential allergic responses. USP grade is available for most of the lower MW forms but like I said Iâm unfamiliar with the high MW PEGs. Anything intended for industrial uses can have some really nasty impurities so be mindful of the grade you are choosing. Regardless of the grade you just need to be very diligent about QC if you are using it for a consumable product because of how itâs produced. Even USP grade is known to cause severe reactions to it in some people. Itâs said to be uncommon in literatyre but if you ever use it you should list it as an allergen warning. PEG was in the news this week because itâs believed to be the reason some are having severe reactions to the vaccine (itâs used as an adjuvant or some type of carrier). So at that scale we may have some new data on how common reactions to PEG carriers really are soon which may help you make a more informed decision.
I personally avoid PEG. Itâs considered safe/biologically inert by the FDA but thereâs been growing evidence over the years that this may not be entirely accurate. The more it gets studied the more we find people have freak allergies to it. Whether or not those reactions are due to PEG or the impurities is not something Iâve ever explored. Itâs made from ethylene oxide/ethylene glycol so inherently itâs just bound to have some toxic impurities. I wouldnât touch it if you didnât have intentions to thoroughly test it and ensure youâre getting a safe product. Your supplier may not be doing their due diligence on the grade theyâre selling you but if youâre the one putting it in a consumable product then thatâs ultimately on you. In minuscule amounts it may not be problematic but I wouldnât go dosing full MLâs in a tincture regardless of purity.
I do not know enough about PEGâs absorption times to comment on the benefits as a tincture delivery system. Iâve always kind of written it off as a carrier oil knowing how severe reactions can be when they do happen. One of the last companies I worked for one of the owners was very vocal about how no product can ever contain PEG. With tinctures you often need to assume theyâre being administered to immunocompromised/elderly medical patients. If itâs for personal use/healthy friends who are aware of it then it may be viable but like I said Iâd keep looking. There may be a way to test if youâre allergic to it by applying a droplet to the skin or something. People in the cannabis space have a tendency to gravitate towards PEG because itâs been made familiar by Wax Liquidizer (which raises a lot more concern knowing PEGâs instability at pretty much any elevated temperature range). I swear people in this industry think PG/VG/Glycerine/PEG/MCT are the only options out there.
Edit: I agree with @roiplek on glycerine. Iâve probably vocalized my hate for glycerine on many occasions on this forum. @PSam in what order were the ingredients listed? Glycerine may be the very last thing. Teeny tiny amounts of it are used to improve the consistency of liquids. Itâs likely being used as a superficial ingredient to improve mouthfeel. Basically it will help with that filmy feeling that oil-soluble drugs tend to leave on your mouth. In water soluble applications it lends more to a syrupy consistency and can reduce odor/flavor. Iâm not personally familiar with the product youâre going off of but if I were to guess itâs being used sparingly for a more cosmetic reason and not for drug absorption.
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Itâs called a Certificate of Analysis (COA). You only purchase hemp with a COA. You learn how to read them.
100mg/g is 10% cannabinoids. Which is pretty common for hemp these days.
See: coa clarification
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No. Sativex has never contained Glycerin.
No. Ethanol and Propylene glycol are both (Co-)solvents.
No. Propylene glycol has different properties as a solvent and is not generally interchangeable with Glycerin.
Peg 400 is in most shampoos, cosmetics, etc.
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@stoopkid Thanks for this great response. I need more popcorn. No idea on all this stuff as when I read its more so âPEG is FDA approvedâ, âPEG increases circulation timeâ and think huh, I might should try this. So is that your opinion on all PEGylated products too? Still trying to figure out your secret ester for absorption tek. I read a paper last night showing span 20 aids in bioavailability and digestion compared to other common excipients. Its a common one might bit be anything special in your eyes. Never worked with it so going to give that one a try. Big thing I read too is P-gp and CYP3A inhibitor properties are something to watch out for. Looks like the polysorbates do that.
Switching lanes a bit, ever heard of Polyglyceryl-3 Oleate for topicals? I just picked some up and going to experiment bypassing first pass through topical approach. Pretty stoked.
That distinction looks to be process dependentâŚ
Glycerin is a non-toxic fluid made from plant oils in its natural form. It can also be made synthetically through processing propylene. Chemically speaking, the alcoholic compound is made of three -OH groups. It is a clear, colorless, sweet tasting, syrupy liquid. Glycerin is commonly used as a humectant (meaning it preserves moisture), solvent, and preservative. Glycerin is also an emollient, which means that it has the quality to soothe and soften the skin, which makes this extremely popular for soap making.
Propylene glycol is a synthetic fluid that derives from propylene oxide. Chemically speaking, it is composed of two -OH groups. Like glycerin, it is a clear, colorless, and sweet tasting chemical. It is also most commonly used as a humectant, solvent, and a preservativeâŚ
Source: https://www.sancoind.com/blog/propylene-glycol-vs.-glycerin
Guess it depends on whether youâre a lumper or a splitter⌠Are you a lumper or a splitter? Both? â Biofortified
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Iâm familiar with many oleic acid esters but never handled that one firsthand. One thing youâll learn is thereâs an endless list of specialized emollients and emulsifiers for the cosmetic industry. Looking at the properties and being familiar with similar ones it will definitely contribute a nice texture. I assume youâre using it in conjunction with some other type of plant wax rather than as the main constituent of your topical.
I only answered half of your question but I have to keep moving today
Not a solvent in this application. More of a diluent/emulsifier for this. As @cyclopath says, itâs process dependent and both have the properties I want. Polyethylene glycol even fits the bill. Personal preference and I prefer glycerin for this, as simple as that.
Whether there is or ever was glycerin in Sativex is really an non-issue and only matters if you want to argue about it which I donât. I saw the package ingredients with my own eyes but Iâll concede your point since I canât find the image I saw. I like to look on the box and only used the first I found. So Iâll go and change my commentaries to read âglycerin/pgâ.
Glycerin is used more often in food products and is generally a natural product as opposed to the synthetic, somewhat toxic pg. Read that sancoind.com link in cyclopathâs post. 
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Sativex does not contain glycerine. It lists ethanol, propylene glycol, and peppermint oil.. Glycerine is a separate thing altogether. Knowing that peppermint oil would be used at extremely low ppm the PG is likely also an additive to serve as a cosolvent to reduce the harshness of pure ethanol. It can improve mouthfeel by way of reducing the filmy texture of the cannabinoids/oil as well as offset the bitterness of the alcohol/mint. You could tell by the consistency just looking at it alongside a bottle of ethanol if they are using a significant amount as it would have a higher viscosity. Iâve never looked at it myself so I cannot comment on the amount used. I just wouldnât take ingredients lists so literally as so many trace additives can legally be omitted and there seem to be some underlying misunderstandings here.
One thing to note is neither PG or glycerine (if it were used) would be acting as an emulsifier in this context. PEG can be and is totally different than glycerin and PG. So itâs also unusual to refer to PEG like theyâre interchangeable with the former as those things possess drastically different chemical properties. When you see glycerine or PG used in this context itâs generally just a small amount for texture purposes, not as a surfactant or anything to that effect. It wouldnât be incorporated for oil soluble drug uptake unless other chemicals were involved such as in an OW emulsion but that would be a very different formulation.
Itâs very possible the ingredients list omits emulsifiers but I see some problems with that based on the order of ingredients. Withholding emulsion IP is pretty much the norm in the states although I do not know firsthand if it needs to be disclosed in these documents. Whatâs more likely to me is the PG is just a fluff ingredient to make it slightly more pleasant to consume the ethanol, oily cannabinoids and mint oil. If they were utilizing a full emulsion system then youâd typically see water or an equivalent in the ingredients before the oils if it were an OW. Regardless, I donât think this is a good path to try and develop a product given the way very different things are being discussed interchangeably.
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Get off the glycerin thread if youre a glycerin hater
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Glycerine is cool if you want to make a low mg tincture that also doubles up as a baby laxative
Sorry, but thereâs nothing here. I set out to make something for home use similar to Sativex only because it was there and it worked and the US was dragging itâs feet. Itâs not meant to be anything other than an easy way to dose for those who have trouble swallowing or inhaling or other issues that can get in the way of effective cannabis treatment. Nothing scientific. Green Dragon tinctures burn like the dickens and as mentioned, glycerin tinctures are weak.
I donât care what anyone here thinks, I created this simple product to help my readers fight their illnesses when all they have is what they can grow at home or afford from the dispensary. Mothers, fathers, grandparents, even children benefit from my knockoffs.
Here, why donât you see what it is and quit making it what itâs not. Itâs been extremely effective. Itâs open source, me to you, so if you can do better for your patientsâŚdo it. And the packaging I saw said âglycerinâ but no big deal. The video here ainât pretty and Iâm told I talk too much but the commentary associated with it will give you a clue. Try it. It works. 
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In the US, to my knowledge, food and drug packaging needs to list all ingredients both active and inactive. Doesnât have to be specific. It could be ânatural spicesâ but you at least know that thereâs spices. Same here. Thatâs as scientific as it gets. If I were making a product for market then of course quality control would be a big deal but Iâm not so itâs not.
Maybe @PSam u were thinking of marinol?
