Timer on a pump (vfd): 45 sec rinse

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when spray washing It washes the cannabis and then it washes the cannabis some more there should also be a rinse cycle.

I’d like about 45-50 seconds, and I’d like to make that automagic, because my wooks are easily distracted (ok, at the moment its ME who can’t reliably hit 50 seconds). rinsing too long wouldn’t be terrible, except Im catching that rinse and using it to wash the next batch. Not only do I want to wash/rinse with a defined volume of solvent, but I defined that volume with a 1l/lb catch tank. if I rinse too long, the tank backs up into the fuge, and the next wash is using too much solvent.

seems like I’ve got a couple of obvious solutions; a timer relay on the pump, or a float switch on the tank…but I’m completely clueless on how to implement either of those in the context of the VFD powered pump I’m using.

I haven’t pulled the manual for the VFD yet, or explored what features I can trigger from the “remote”.

open to any and all suggestions on how to make this wook proof.

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Not sure if it would make the VFD angry… But you could put the float with switch further down the line and cut the power before it hits the VFD?

I’d assume a decent VFD would also have some pretty robust controls available to you you though. I’m pretty sure (but entirely unsure how) it’s possible to rig the float into a kill on the VFD; but my knowledge in that field hasn’t improved since the last time we hungout

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yeah, just cutting the power to the VFD seems barbaric. it is on the list though.

the VFD’s on my current batch of centrifuges have all sorts of fun features built in. Including four terminals that can have actions programmed behind them. one set uses those buttons for “slow”, “med”, “high” & “stop”. I’d prefer it if they all did that. the Chinese HMI sucks. but I haven’t (yet) seen any timer implementation, and I’m dealing with a different brand of VFD on my pump(s).

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A majority of the VFDs I’ve played with (not too many, all reasonably modern) had built in plc-like functionality of one form or another - at least basic timer type functions.

Haven’t played with them much myself but they seemed to be pretty helpful things from what I can tell.

Level switches would work but rely on having the same volumes/levels available to you on each run.

Mechanically, a timer relay may end up being the simplest core component.

Depending on the size of your VFD, one with plc-like functionality may be in the <=$250 range, which does to me approach the “what’s your time worth” cost level.

Theoretically, a VFD like that might be able to take in some form of digital input (button) and command a certain thing to run for a given amount of time, with ramps and such if you want to be really fancy.

Next time I’m in the manual for my preferred VFD brand (GS20 series from AutomationDirect) I’ll check for a timer function. They even have PLC example program you can download, modify, and implement.

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yeah. pretty sure the drives running my fuges are capable of that trick. haven’t dug too far because they’re not controlling the pumps. guess digging into another fine manual is on todays list.

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Could you tell me what pump your using.

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It’s a chemsteel gear pump not cheap.

What maters is the VFD driving it.

Acquiring that & the corresponding fine manual are on my list for this afternoon.

I’ve tried engaging a local panel builder…I’m hoping he bites.

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what is controlling your pump VFD? are you manually just applying an on/off command? is the command applied to an existing panel or to the VFD itself??

likely the VFD wont give you the direct controllability without some added layers.

A small digital controller linked up to the pump VFD would allow a simple timer command, or a float switch, or both.
Probably not the cheapest option, im sure someone with more low voltage knowledge could get an option with a rasberry pi or arduino.

most VFDs will allow for bacnet I/O but there are so many types its hard to know without digging into the manual.

if you really need some help i can ask my controls guy hes pretty keen on cannabis projects!

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Currently running the pump from the “remote” on the VFD. Nothing else involved (yet).

Controlling the pump(s), valves, and fuges from the same interface, as automagically as possible is certainly the end game here, but building a panel that controls the pump(s) and valves probably isn’t a bad start.

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Depending what VFD you got - I’ll echo what @Lincoln20XX said about it being programmable. I use float triggers on our gummy line and we had to go in and program each VFD with ramp up / down times and a whole bunch of other stuff. Should be an option to “take off panel” mode and it’ll go into slave mode triggered by 5vdc or line. Take off panel mode and switch to external.

Here’s my notes from programming one of ours (I know they don’t help you, just showing how many steps we had to program… went up to 34) :man_facepalming:… it was kind of a pain in the ass but definitely doable.

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We didn’t need a controller to do it. Just a cherry switch to the VFD.

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Now I test the hypothesis that the English version of a German manual will be easier to comprehend than the English version of the Chinese manual I’ve been working out of for the last few months…

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Mine’s a Chinese translation.

Lots of talk of wring and wring diagrams.

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Looks like if you give it voltage at DI1 it will read an analog (voltage, I assume 0-10V) signal at AI1 and give you a speed appropriate to the request.

A button, timer relay, and a potentiometer would probably be the simplest way to get close to what you’re looking for without going down the PLC route.

I believe a float switch on the tank that triggers a normally closed relay to break the D1 input would tell the VFD to stop with the pumping, no matter if the timer has finished it’s thing or not.

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It will take more digging into the manual but it seems you can take your pic of the options. It seems that @Lincoln20XX is correct that you can program a manual mechanical timer or a simple push button start input and set the timer function parameters.

Does the fuge have a PLC already? Maybe you can just interface the drive and add some programming.

EN_ACS310_UM_D_A4.pdf (4.9 MB)

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How are you starting the vfd in the first place? This could probably be easily accomplished with a timer relay, push button and a float, possibly a solid state relay if you don’t wanna get a cheap plc. Need a little more info and I could draw this up for you. Source: I’m a controls engineer

Also there’s better options than ABB which are also cheaper :wink:

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You’ve got my attention.

:spoon: plz.

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Using the “remote” on the ABB. Start/stop/change speed.

I’m aware there are cheaper and more sophisticated options. These were mounted on the wall when I got here (this time).

First drive I tried to wrap my head around was an ABB. The 275(3?) page manual was way more than I could absorb in the allotted time frame, especially given all the other stuff that needed done, but I managed to get the guy that built the control box on the phone and solved the problem…. I’ve butted heads with several more since then, and the kind folks here have be instrumental in my continuing education in electrickery 1 Φ 3

The local control guy said he was booked till 2022, so yeah I could use a 1k word substitute or three on how to make this work.

I’ll hit you up via dm with details, and bring back my progress as I can.

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Omron, Mitsubishi, automation direct (not really better lol but way cheaper), Siemens, Schneider electric, WEG. But don’t take my word for it check out misumi, McMaster-carr, allied electronics automation, etc… I’m just an ABB hater (whose company uses all ABB lol) but my previous employer was all Mitsubishi

I know this feeling all too well. Definitely DM me I’d be more than happy to help!

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What kind of control panel do you already have? Most micro-controllers can do what you are asking for.
Does your VFD have an on-board programmable micro-controller (two of mine do, the others do not…) if so - you probably can feed it a signal and that signal will then start a loop on the controller.

I see that you said you are running it from the “remote” how many additional signal connections can that take? I assume its low-voltage and not like an ethernet connection (although, it totally could be, in which there’s a whole additional playground of automation tools for you to explore).

Do you already have an HMI? Do you have access to the HMI / PLC interface software? :slight_smile: Tell us and we shall all rally to make recommendations.

I’ve got panel shops in Fort Collins, CO, Kansas City, MO, and Durham, NC that have done this work for me in the past - if your local shoppe isn’t interested. <3

Oh balls! You showed a picture and I just got so excited I didn’t realize you were running ABB!! I have used those many times and even if you hate them (because documentation issues) you can totally connect them to Allen Bradly controls here in the States and that means you can really do whatever you want with them.

That ABB ACS310 you have is good stuff. There’s all kinds of manuals from ABB in English - you can find them at ABB Library It also includes some other good to have things like bulletins on correcting communications errors, how to interface via ethernet, programming guides (yay!), some specifics on using the tech at different voltages (always helpful for conversion activities), and of course some sweet free programs that you can download and upload as firmware, should you wish.

You can totally filter by English only and then look at things related to only your VFD if you want.

I bet @BunkMoreland is super right that from your remote you can accomplish this with a few additional components and you are off to the races - if you don’t want to invest in an HMI/PLC with additional bells and whistles. (You know, like a single touch screen on/off, with monitoring for all your instruments, and alarms/alerts, etc.)

Let us know what you choose to go with. I’m legit doing a rebuild on controls for a bottling line next month - and I can let you know where I end up on components suppliers and the like. <3

Good luck!

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none. just the VFD hanging on the wall with an ethernet (like) cable running to the remote in the controlled space.