There is no way to make an crystal that is based off an oil to be absorbed by the body treu the lungs ph is way to low and no matter how small the grind it s still huge on a molecular level i can see thc-a derivatives be used thou still not recomended
Nor would I recommend this path way
Eat it would be my recommendation
Actually I agree. I was being kind-of facetious. I didnāt mean it at face value- rather as a point of fact arguing against āTHC-Aā hemp vapes and the logic behind it.
I get it. Sorry for coming off as defensive. I just know there was thca vapes which sorta fit the name.
but definitely isnt any product i know that delivers actual thc non decarbed in a aerosol. i do enjoy eating it with a lot less side effects than ibprofen.
The hemp slanger is great we have had Dustin at our facility im saying that manging those selling knock offs are difficult. You always trust but verify. If your buying from someone putting random shit into other peopleās brands and saying your the plug I think that tells us enough about that person.
The terminology for how different products is very important. However this inducerty is evolving so fast itās hard for these definitions to focused on when businesses are closing, laws are chaging etc etc.
These definitions are something thatās defined later in the game. I think about Hersheys having to maintain 11% cacao to still keep calling their bars chocolate.
We all have different opinions on what a products should be called. What happens when we start blending them ? Eg live resin, live rosin , distillate. At the end of the day we all need to be successful in business with ideally keeping our morals. The market is really the one that decides these things.
I remember when disposables first came out and we said we wouldnāt sell them. We took a stand 
guess what ā¦ā¦ we nearly went out of business.
At the end of the day this industry will be no and other 95% of people will fold or go out of business.
Anyone consuming hemp or cannabis is at the risk. We are still living in the prohibition of cannabis and its unfortunate that this still happens.
I greatly respect everything you just said, and largely agree.
I think the landscape will change again once markets mature and enjoy full legalization.
Just to be clear, Iām not pretending that high THCa hemp is not hemp. Thatās just established legal precedence at this point - which is why the legislature is rapidly making it no longer legal.
Iāve seen dozens cultivars personally that at 4 weeks prior to harvest test at less than 0.3% Total THC. Why is that? Because many cultivars donāt start setting THCa until the later weeks of flower. I see this in my licensed cultivation in Michigan as well. Testing plants at 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, and even 5 weeks in flower and seeing that they are still ātechnically hempā.
Now are they definitely equivalent to weed once they are harvested - 100%.
And thatās the problem with these conversations. Scientific reality, legislative reality, and market reality appear to constantly be in conflict. The final rule was written by people focused on producing rope. And that final rule was ran around by the cannabinoid producing hemp industry almost instantly.
@pdxcanna how are you not aware of the cases across the country? Thereās been over 50 cases against the DEA on this very issue. And those cases established all kinds of precedence - everything from being able to maintain your cannabis trademark because youāre actually a hemp company even when you have THC (yes, that happened in WA) to the DEA and state police do not have jurisdiction over converted vaping products sold in convenience stores - to you can now get THC in beverages drop shipped to your door and found in some of the largest big box stores.
Its just wildly allowed - with limited enforcement from any quarter on basic things like the FD&C violations and violating individual state laws on hemp products.
Hell - even folks doing conversion suffered once folks realized that you could plant high THCa cannabis sativa plants, that do not set Total THC until after week 5 of flower and then bam. Now you have harvest documentation saying you have a ālegalā hemp crop - which looks just as good as normal weed.
Even licensed operators in places like MA and MI and MD are trying to figure out how to get their licensed cannabis crops tested as hemp so they can export it to states with limited marketplaces.
Of course - thatās all going to stop now with the changes to the Farm Bill under the continuing resolution. And it doesnāt look like there are enough hemp friendly folks to help keep things accessible in Congress right now. And why should there be? Should they not be worried about WAR and healthcare and food prices instead? But I digress.
In general, folks make laws and then other folks make regulations. And then normal folks like us try to abide by them. While billionaires and their friends decide to say fuck all that and figure out how to roughshod over them while simultaneously leaving a wake of court cases for us all to follow along. And once that happens - we see what we are seeing now. Well funded prohibitionists, lead primarily by wealthy Republican donors working tirelessly to fund and lobby legislators to scare them that these products are dangerous (some are, most are not) and that no one intended this to happen (Iāve been lobbying for legalization since 1996, and over 70% of US adults think it should be legal, Iām pretty sure we all intended this to happenā¦) and therefore Congress should undo all the good work of getting the plant into more peopleās hands.
I really think that my efforts fail because we have a lack of technical knowledge and expertise to combat prohibitionists in the marketplace. Its an international voluntary consensus process - that means as a scientist I have to convince non-scientists, anti-science folks, and regulators of things.
In the US we are here debating āhempā and other bullshit. Around the rest of the world - they already decided that cannabis has medical properties and started allowing international trade in it years ago. They donāt give a fuck about it being āhempā unless its fiber or grain. Everything else is cannabis as intended and ready for medical usage. Or cannabis as intended and still fully illegal regardless of its medical usage.
And whatās really messed up about that - is the UN convention changed years ago but in the US we act like it hasnāt changed at all. Like somehow weāre special because we donāt give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks about things at all (thatās pretty apparent most of the time yeah?) and that means we are failling woefully behind in the international market on this.
That really sucks. But it seems par for the course right now. Weāve been falling behind since I was in 3rd grade. I donāt think anyone is going to right the ship. And that extends to fixing our ridiculous obsession with cannabis being illegal and not medicine. x.X
-end rant-
i find this super hard to believe. As someone thats grown cannabis for over a decade. This seems impossible. 4 weeks before harvest? so more than 5 weeks into flowering and only .3% total thc. LOL OK
you must be talking about some 6 week harvest plants then. LOL. come on. this is another reason
Honestly your rant looks like a ton of legal BS. People know the difference between consumable cannabis and industrial hemp. Your testing at 4 weeks into the flowering and its .3% makes it hemp essential but when its full term its 25% thca flower is the biggest crock of shit excuse and the reason the hemp industry and cannabis industry will lose the biggest loophole ever exploited in the last 35 years pertaining to cannabis
I follow this pretty closely. Sabhie Khan vs City of Allen is still pending, there was a case in Ohio recently where a THCa transporter was convicted under the marijuana testing provisions in that state. I havenāt seen anyone get off on a case because THCa = hemp, thereās not anything close to that that I know of, just PC and evidentiary issues
can you cite any actual court cases? itās not self-evident to me
I was told these are live resin (or maybe live rosin) vapes. Is this more word trickery.
Ikusher disposables, no other info given, no packaging
Does anyone have a coa from a trusted lab for a THCA vape?
I shared your reticence. But then I went out and collected the data. Sativa leaning plants did not share this characteristic, in general (at least as claimed by the breeders to be Sativa leaning). Iām hoping weāll see some dense academic publications on this - which follow along with the pangenome piece in Nature that was published last year which discussed similar issues. And I started with my own data where I could with plants in my own cultivation facility. I found them to be high in CBGa at around week 4-5 of flower, but significantly lower in THCa - and by lower, some of them are ātechnicallyā hemp still. Then I did a bunch of seed popping - and I found that even within the same cultivar some were coming in with limited THCa during the āpre-harvestā window. What else did I find? They were generally what I would consider cannabis under producers. Phenotypes that I would not select for because at harvest they would not be top grade.
What did that tell me? That told me that it was possible to select for phenotypes and cultivars that would still be below the 0.3% mark during the āpre-harvestā window. Would it be good weed at harvest, nope. Would that matter to people slinging weed through the mail, nope.
I 100% agree that this is a loophole. And I think its set our entire industry back by flagrantly waving rules around in front of offended parents, regulators, and law enforcement folks. And I donāt participate in this loophole market - I do my work in licensed cannabis facilities in Michigan. And while I am certain that access will be lost in dozens of states because of the hemp industries frivolous disregard for societies norms - I generally disregard those norms myself, so I am sad and unsurprised at the repercussions.
So in the way I have come to appreciate, I solidly agree with you last statement.
That is 100% true. And its fucked up. And there is data to support how fucked up it is. And I wish folks in the broader community would have listened to me when I said not to do it. But they did not listen to me. And so now we must all suffer the consequences.
Here are the ones that are often cited to me. Iām not a lawyer - but I do attend a lot of educational sessions with people that are, and they post big lists of cases. Just last year, the Michigan Prosecutors Association came and gave testimony to the Michigan Legislature House Regulatory Reform Committee citing some of these as well. Their hands are tied without changes to state law they said. And even the Michigan Cannabis Regulatory Agency has said the same thing.
The key here is that without STATE LAWS that require Total THC testing after the pre-harvest verification test then the federal law stands. That was in AK Futures LLC V. Boyd Street Distro LLC. Ninth Circuit agreed with the lower court that utilizing available pre-harvest records for D9-THC contamination was the letter of the law.
You mentioned a case in Texas which is pending and leans heavily on the statutes as written which align with the twisted loophole I mentioned in my rant. It also references some of the other court cases. And we may or may not see them win in this.
Of course, the Fourth Circuit has already found that it is constitutional for states to have more stringent rules than the federal statutes. Which is how many states are closing the loophole before the federal government started really thinking about it. If another circuit that disagrees with them, then there might be a SCOTUS case about it. That has not happened yet.
You mentioned a case in Ohio - but did not get specifics. If you were transporting THCa isolate in Michigan you would be trapped by Michiganās state law which says THCa is part of total THC and that means its only allowed to be transported by licensed operators. The laws in Ohio are similar and recent legislation will make that even tighter.
The Fourth Circuit has seen other appeals which then also established precedence in that circuit regarding hemp derived products being legal - as long as they had appropriate documentation and had less than 0.3% D9-THC in them.
As you will probably notice - none of these cases is about a person getting arrested with hemp and then being acquitted. Its all case law establishing judicial interpretations of legislative statutes. And even when the hemp industry has gone after the DEA directly the courts have found that the statutes are clear on the issue, even when like in this case the industry group did not have standing to sue the DEA.
In Michigan the prosecutors have been open and honest that they are not prosecuting known bad actors (aka those folks selling hemp vapes in shops across the street from schools) because under current federal laws they would lose. And that is why they are advocating so strongly here for new state laws that will allow them to punish those folks.
I have never seen this. I would also like to see that. I have seen COA from trusted labs for pre-harvest testing of hemp that at harvest was definitely hot hemp - specifically the trusted lab is a DEA licensed laboratory at Michigan State University.
Prosecuted using post-decarboxylation testing of finished plant material
I have noticed & mentioned that all the products I choose (and find to be the most desirable) at the medical store have hemp coas and always think itās funny and clearly wasnāt an accident.
What does THCa mom look like?
I bet someone could coax a melt test to look compliant, but it probably would lack shelf life/stability and not be representative of the actual products compared to a properly made one.
i really doubt it. these coil vapes dont take melted diamonds very well even at 8% terps. this is my go to vape device and i know decarbed diamonds and terps dont work well in them.
Honestly Jungle boyz makes the best live rosin vapes ive ever had and consistently. Sucks the price of them at the dispensary but man they are the shit. everytime i travel i have them and its like a dab pen
I believe you but then i read statements like this. For the past 35 years, ive been lucky to be around one of the most sought after sativas still around. The miami black haze. I have close friends and family that have grown this strain now as long as ive been in the game. This is a 90-120 day flowering strain. So your telling me your own research with sativa leaning plants that 4 weeks from harvest. Likely more that 40 days into flowering the THC is .3%.
Im really glad ive own my own personal G.C. and this is pretty far from the data ive seen over my life. But once againā¦. i believe you. When you say 4-5 weeks into flower, are you talking about when your changing the light cycle or when you start to actual see it starting to bloom?
and i appreciate the work you doā¦ the only time i can recall having a disagreement with you is the name of the āblack marketā thread which we all have our opinions which are all correct in there own ways.
I just love the traditional cannabis market. I learned to love the hemp people for finding loopholes never exploited by traditional cannabis. And the balls they had to have to believe all this stuff. LOL
Thats my rant. Legal Cannabis sucks in reality. The 90s were the best cannabis decade by far. Wish we had better extraction methods back thenā¦ā¦ The more legal cannabis getsā¦.the shittier its gottenā¦.. im sure that correlation stands true
āWe have the technology.ā
Anyone old enough would remember this-
I would guess it is just in reference to the required usda 30 day pre-harvest test = (4 week-ish% +/-)
Exactly.
