Who’s doing testing with the Sri machines? Anyone set up they own shop? Anyone working for someone doing it? What are you set up to do?
according to In House analytics 18% of respondents are using SRI machines as part of their arsenal.
they are great for in house work. I’ve used them in a third party setting, and they are really not up for the task.
what did you have in mind.
What do you recommend for third party settings? Just looking for a way to get into the industry on the east coast and stay busy doing it.
Hplc feeding a triple-quad is a decent start.
I’d guesstimate on the order of $500k to setup a lab that will meet iso certification. And $100k or better for the chemist to run it
You might manage to fly a couple of SRI for a short while in a new market.
What do you exactly mean by your last statement?
Which part Is giving you trouble?
Triple quad: Triple quadrupole mass spectrometer - Wikipedia
Fly a couple of SRI: see Wild West
If you don’t know what a triple-quad is, chances are you’re not going to be opening an analytical lab without a PhD level analytical chemist. They don’t come cheap…
certs wouldn’t be bad. That other stuff tho.
So how can say someone get a Sri machine, be able to test everything and get a business going? In house or traveling.
What kind of business? Certianly not an analytics company. An SRI would be the one stop for in house potency and maybe terpenes for a production company. An analytics company will need quite a bit more. What is your goal?
At SRI we see the testing business as either:
- A state certified lab which will require 1 Million in equipment plus another million in startup expenses.
- A " pre-regulatory" testing business which tests for potency, terpenes and residual solvents but not pesticides, heavy metals or biologicals. This you can start for about 15 thousand and work out of your home or van.
Many people just need a quick potency test to asses their product, and they need it today. They can’t wait a week for results. A business which provides this service can make money without a huge investment.
Start with a “pre-regulatory” business model, and if you do well then consider expanding to a “certified” lab. Chances are good you will be able to buy the required equipment for pennies on the dollar from some of the failed " certified" labs.
Option 2 of what Hugh said, I like that. Number 1 can happen when I get to that point. I’m comin from the trenches rite now.
Would you consider the 310 or 8610 for a pre regulatory business?
there is a short window, before the regulations are up to snuff, where one can get folks to pay for the sort of data you can get on an appropriately setup SRIGC.
As soon as your state regulators get their shit together, the rules get more stringent, and you’re no longer able to assit folks with their compliance goals, because those goals now require testing for pesticides (so you’ll need a decent mass spec and an extensive library).
The window in Oregon, where labs like this were profitable/viable seemed to be considerably shorter than the window in CA. Given the momentum we’ve got at this point, I would not expect it to last long at all in states coming onboard late.
I grabbed my SRI GC from a medical dispensary in Washington, they’d been using it for about a year to give their patients some idea on what they were purchasing (potency). They sold it because the state insisted they pay someone else for that information…and of course required pesticide & biological safety data in addition to potency.
The second one I interacted with was being used to ostensibly provide pesticide testing in a state licensed lab. I helped set it up, but left once I realized how it was being used: the lab was looking for a single (banned, and unobtainable) pesticide, and passing material when they didn’t see it.
did see 8610C’s being used effectively in labs that are still standing. ALL of those spent real money upgrading their equipment.
Mhm that’s deff got me interested, as far as I know rite now nobody in mass is testing. Maybe in-house but I haven’t heard of anyone just doing testing like you stated. The state wanted it to be done by a testing company. That’s my overall goal. If someone wants to partner I’d be open to that. If someone wanted to buy me out I’d be open to that.
Buy you out of what?
Also there are 3 open labs in Mass accepting testing ~50 a sample for cannabinoid 2-7 day turn around
Also you have
East Coast Labs in Warwick, RI
Tested Labs in York, ME
Proverde Labs second spot in Portland, ME
Estoria Labs in Bangor, ME
Not sure if NH has anything
It sounds like you have nothing to offer but endless questions about how to do things, and now that people have provided you with a slight business plan you are offering to be bought out?
They are accurate and awesome machines, but it’s like buying a car. Here’s my crude analogy. You want to go on an awesome 4x4 trip and you need a vehicle. So you buy a car from this long time car manufacturer that makes vans. The vans they make are great for long road trips, but they say hey this van could make this offroad trip no problem… we just have to change a few things. And they do and it works… but when you are on your journey you start to see some design flaws. You look at others traveling in the group and it’s apparent that their specifically designed offroad vehicles of jeeps, toyotas and such have a lot less headaches and can overcome obstacles easier than you can… they have a better tool designed for the job. But that vehicle cost up to 10x more and with a little learning and comprehension you’ll get there too. Sure you’re going to be picked on by others for having a jalopy along the way but after learning the ins and outs of the van, you can keep up with the group.
If you have never driven before you have even more of a uphill battle facing you, and if you have never looked under the hood of a vehicle you’ll have even more headaches. Get what I’m saying? Here’s why I say it like this.
With SRI, I love the equipment, but troubleshooting can be cumbersome when you run into issues. The online video turorials and online documentation isn’t really in any start to finish layout and you have to hunt down the procedures in the proper steps. Now the purchase of the equipment comes with free training, but I’m on the opposite coast and it wasn’t worth it to me to spend over 5k for travel, lodging, downtime, etc.
When you run into issues however phone support is free and @srihugh1 is amazing but if you don’t get him (not going to name the other person) be prepared for a lengthy back and forth of “just send me another chromatograph” that reminds me of dealing with overseas phone support. Seems like a smart guy, but lacking in basic troubleshooting skills. I’ve been lead down the wrong path a few times resulting in lost man hours and inaccurate results. Also if you have a problem outside regular business hours you are SOL which is understandable.
I’m assuming these units are geared for experienced GC users however I was able to become an expert on the machine and now she’s my little bitch and our accuracy is amazing with multi-point calibration and tighter procedures. I’ve even contemplated doing the Emerald Test to see exactly how we are.
Anyone buying one of these… buy a gas leak detector. The 100 dollar one from amazon works great and will save you loads of headaches as most issues are either leaks, or contamination.
One other heed of warning, the residual solvent side of the 310 has a flaw. When you inject the sample, the leur lock syringe needle they give you for the 1ml is too large and will core the septum, and will inject the core into the port blocking the flow. It’s a bitch to remove the septum tidbits and requires teardown of the injector port. We have better luck with the purchase of a gas tight 1ml chromatography syringe.
Learning about the difference between leaks, flow issues, dirty columns, etc comes with experience and you WILL run into issues as with any machine and can be a huge headache. Learning short path distillation is easier than becoming proficient with the machine. Just be patient and understand you are operating a machine that others have had extensive training and experience with.
I’m not knocking SRI, and like I said I do love the machine and probably the most important device in our organization and for the cost it’s worth it, but these are devices tailored to this industry instead of being designed for our industry from the ground up. MCT for example will elute to your next test run under default parameters and will mess up your next injections results. Simple fix for this is on tincture runs, change your temp program so that at the end of the run it increases to 250c and holds for 5 min. Of course I had to find this solution on my own and was of the result of almost a week of fighting with the machine and being set back a few times from support (was told first to clean my injector sleeve inside and out, cleaning it on the inside introduced contaminants and needed lengthy conditioning, then was told to change my connections as it sounded like a flow issue, shorten my column because of contaminants etc etc) it was a giant mess.
Dang Man you just saved a lot of people a lot of hair loss!
Best thing I’ve read all day
Great write up!! and I couldnt agree more about the help Hugh gives and the run around the other tech gives. I have spent days going back and fourth with very little help until Hugh chimes in. I have learned you need to do all the leg work and trouble shooting then send an email saying all the steps you have already taken and then it seems to help save a lot of time.
Also I couldnt agree more about the syringe problem. I’ve been going through septum’s like crazy and will be buying a 1ml gas tight syringe ASAP! @OBXtracts can you share a link to the one you bought?
For what it is I think the GC SRI sells is great as well but the accessories they provide are sub par and could use improvement.