Temp and CRC affecting Yield

[Indica1124]

Hey all, I have received so much advice and opinions from multiple people on this forum
(HUGE SHOUTOUT to @Soxhlet who has given me a ton of advice and tips) , and would like to see what other people have to say.
I am having trouble with yields and would like to see what everyone thinks could be done differently or improved upon to increase maximum yields and efficiency.

We used to run NO CRC and cooled our columns with LCo2 and would run -60 to -90 F

We opened a new spot and the owner purchased a CLS from Extractor Shwaggo.
This machine is a basic CLS with an MVP for recovery Machine is set up in this order…
—> Non-jacketed 200 lb Solvent tank —> two 6" x 48" material spools ( they have closed jackets but we dont chill them atm)----> Directly below Material column is inline crc spool (6" x 10" ) filled with our powders and absorbents… —> reducer----->Collection Vessel —> MVP for recovery---->heat exchanger with just Dry ice -----> back into solvent tank…

THE PROBLEM: yields are bouncing all over the place. but more importantly I am noticing lower yields on everything we run. Some runs are great but most are very mediocre.

The process:
This method was recommended to us and worked great for the first month until all the yields started dropping like crazy.

First, let me say we run warm butane ( 0 to 5 Celsius )
we inject into material column A, which holds 7 LBs of biomass.
This normally takes about 15- 20 mins to inject,
at 10 to 15 psi we kick the MVP on which drags pressure in honeypot to 5 psi during rest of injection.
once full
we Fill Column B which also Takes 15-20Mins to fill
Meanwhile Column A Soaks.
Once column B is full.
We immediately dump and flush column A.
Once flushed and drained
We flush column B

Each column Receives a 50 lbs of gas per 7 lbs of Biomass
CRC powders for example are usually in accordance with estimated yeild. for example sake we will say the CRC has 200g T5 then 50G T41 with 350 grams silica 60 per column.

During each column getting drained and flushed we typically throttle the ball valve barely open to ensure no channeling in powders.

we do not bake or prewash out powders and have gotten yields above 22% without doing this.
desiccant dryer gets change often fresh gas always cooked over periodically. No visible moisture on honeypot or solvent tank.

We seem to be yielding less than we should. Stuff that always pulled 13% seems to now be pulling 8-9% this is why too much of a loss.

Please give any information that may be of use…

Maybe im soaking too long with warm gas leading to evaporation and crappy yield,
Maybe im filling to fast/slow causing some type of channeling.
Maybe gas is just too warm… but i thought people run warm when making crude which has huge yields lol
Maybe not having cooled jackets

idk

I am not an expert but also IMHO not a complete rookie.

for this one im all ears… Assuming im not using too many absorbents and getting yield loss from that.
what could be causing this. what do you guys recommend and what could you see improved?

Thanks again and sorry if I missed some steps or terminology.

[Terpturkey]

Do you push with nitrogen?

[FicklePickle]

That’s seems like way to much silica. If baking the powder I’d suggest this for your 7lb column.

350g of bentonite clay of your choosing and
175g of silica

That’s
50g t5
25g silica 60
Per LB of biomass

To much silica can destroy yields and terps
I generally see a 2% loss on crc material vs non

[Indica1124]

Only at the end through vapor port on material column to get last of solvent out

[Indica1124]

Oh damn thought the silica did the heavy lifting?
We don’t bake them mainly due to time and space.

From my notes. Heavy silica runs seem to be more effective.
However I’ve never gone heavy on T5 over silica I will def try

2% is like exactly what we are losing lol.

Do u still see clear results with reduced silica??
Maybe I’ll add some magsill too

[FicklePickle]

I’ve seen white using that exact recipe. Your numbers above clearly say your getting 13% and are now seeing 8-9%. So 4-5% loss.

No where have I read to run heavy silica. T5 does the heavy lifting (IMO), and silica pulls the yellow.

As long as your input is of decent quality, the recipe above should work perfectly. Try baking the powder some time.

Also, b80 straight is cheaper than anything else and when baked and used at 75g/Lb of biomass works like a freaking dream and you’ll also get clear end product.

[terplord420]

I second this! I also found that sending your solution to a “bleaching column” (B80/DE) to stall, helps improve the effectiveness of the powders. I wish I was able to conduct more RnD, but the tek was as follows:

Solvent tank chilled to -60c > butane rinse material column > immediately flow to dewax (-60c or as low as possible) > stall for 15min or just pass thru > send to bleaching column > stall for 30 min > collect and recover. I pressurize the machine to 90 psi to get a good flow through the powders.

Bleaching column was a tube the same size as the material column (4"x72" column) attached to a custom CRC. Powders and stack filled, from bottom to top;

2um sintered disc > ring+plate+2.5um paper > ring+plate+5um paper > ring+plate+10um paper > ring+plate+25um paper > diatomaceous earth > bentonite > diatomaceous earth > ring+25um paper

I found better results stalling for 30 mins in the bleaching column with those powders, I found that simply passing through the powders was not as effective. Perhaps if you kept the powders warm, it would have more of an immediate effect.

Magsil and magnesol always killed my yield.

[Indica1124]

4 to 5% loss is the worst ive seen.
As clear as that may be, I was only saying more often than not 2% is a common loss for us with crc.
Baking the powder may help. There are several posts even on here where people recommend more silica than T5. But I’m more than happy to do the opposite, and save some money on powders lol
Yeah ill prob try out B80 soon here seems to be like half the price of T5.

Thanks for all the advice mang.
Ill pop back on after tmrw with some shared results.

[Indica1124]

sheeesh thats dope, love the filter setup…
The Rack we have atm just has the one spool with a filter paper>ring>powders> its all inline too so now isolated crc column. Basically an extension of the material column rite below it. All things considered, we have achieved great tasting water clear shatter etc with this basic setup… powders stacked rite on top of each other.

When you say you have a separate material column for stalling in the bleaching column,
you have you powders at the bottom rite?
Then you stall the liquid for 30 mins and flush through your filter stackss?

[terplord420]

Yep, that’s the general idea. Still not sure why stalling had a better effect for me than just passing thru. I used to have the little crc stack right under the dewax column, and that didn’t work as well as the bleaching column. Maybe since adsorption has to do with electromagnetism, the bentonite may be pulling/attracting the unwanted compounds out of solution as everything warms up and molecules are bumping/moving around. That’s just my guess, I wanted to work on the tek more, because I feel there are better ways to get the same results.

[Indica1124]

Maybe the fact that your powders probably were so evenly soaked?
I know thats the idea behind ppl washing powders pre-run to make them more like a cake so they flow evenly during the run.

Either way sounds dope. Do you have trouble getting through all those filters if u dont No2 boost to 90psi?

[terplord420]

Yeah, I would put enough powders to last 4 runs, so there was a decent cake to push thru. Anything lower than 90 psi and the flow wouldn’t be as consistent, at 90 and above it would flow through like a waterfall. Without the powders, the filter setup works perfectly at lower pressures, but may slow down at the sintered disc.

[clouds]

@Waxplug1 pointed this out very early on in the thread, extended contact times with the B80 allowed it to maximize it’s adsorbent capabilities and works a lot better than just running straight through. Additionally if you can agitate it while it’s soaking with the powders it works even better. It’s difficult to do this inline though. My experience is the same, the longer contact time with the media, the more color it pulls out.

[Waxplug1]

You guys have been dabtized with b80 and it’s clear holy water but have you ever been possessed by W1 and its exorcist flow?

[Indica1124]

Doesn’t too many powders eat your yeild. If u go higher than usual on ratios to last 4 runs?
Or does the soak stop the yeild loss?

[terplord420]

With the soaks, I wasn’t experiencing much yield loss. I usually saw more yield loss if the material:solvent/oil:solvent ratio was off.

edit: the best ratio I could do was a 5:1 solvent:material, I was limited by the solvent tank and collection pot.

[Waxplug1]

Check out these speeds

W1 Flow speed

70 psi nitro assist
Water clear and dumped in 12min. I’m using 1/4 lines I’m sure once I get the bigger sizes in it will be faster.
@Chemtek

[Waxplug1]

Ran 4 times through same crc also and got pink, yellow, orange, blood orange

[Indica1124]

What’s your opinion on not baking powders.
Would one need to use more if unbaked?
Or will it just affect the end color?

[samurai]

if its that silica lemme buy some???