Sugar instead of shatter

[Intergalactic]

Not to dig up an old thread but this is interesting information. @Apothecary36 I added a honey pot, bvvs 6in jacketed container, it gets pulled by 2 trs-21’s through a 3/8ths hose attached to the pot, the pumps teed together to that one hose. You stated that the final reduce before pour should be clear, it was clear before we moved to the honey pot but now we are seeing the mixture start to cloud, I thought this was a slight crash but was not sure until now.

We let the mixture sit in there until the next tube’s solvent is inside of the collection base. That is about a 10 minute time period with the crc. Then do a final reduce on the honey pot and pour, it’s a very cold pour out of the honey pot, sometimes even jelly like. Why do you think this could be? We are displacing 80f water very quickly about 700gph rate. Any idea?

[Apothecary36]

Got any pics of the pour off?

[Intergalactic]

Not currently @Apothecary36

[noirrad]

How long are you generally leaving your slabs in the oven for? do you only do one flip?

[sonicgardens]

What temp was your material and tane, i have had silca60 pass through all my filters running room temp. It was cloudy when cold and poured off like gel

[Intergalactic]

I run about -71 and only pass through my room temp material

[sonicgardens]

That shouldnt have silica pass through. Only way to tell is winterize it after i diluted it and through it in the freezer it got cloudy. I was able to catch most with coffee filters, but i would recommend a smaller um to grab it all the first time.

[Intergalactic]

Agreed I also filter down to 2um so I highly doubt anything is getting through

[sonicgardens]

It got through warm but nvr cold, yet i had the same consistency when it happened to me

[Juice311]

I never ran a system as big as that one but i had continual issues getting to consentant stable shatter. It took me about 6 months to figure out the cause as i tried everything but i finally achieved nirvana after dialing everything down and figured out my environment. I will state problems and rules i have with tane process. Also explanations on why i do certain things. Ill write up my sop very soon.
-First A problem i see is humidity. When you releasing out of your sprout the oil is collecting oxygen and humidity. Friction from the sprout and heated oil is causing a rapid transfer heat and your oil is porous to environmental conditions when heated.
-Second i have a rule i didnt bring temperatures in the oven pass the honey pot temperature.
-Third i never frozen anything before hand because the least bit of water moisture will cling onto the thc crystallizes when you freeze.(having humidity ayyeee you asking for it) Meaning if you even have vacuum sealed frozen material this will cause issuses. Instead i had an open sleeve dry ice column for this reason. Dry ice and iso out beats closed column bc of budget and to find one to cool off that heat load is insane while your recovery pump is going.
-Fourth i vacuumed down my CLS (not the recovery pump, a seperate pump connecting to the hemispherical sphere that is connected to my shatter platter chamber and stood at 29.5) and kept it running to suck any water moisture out of my biomass while freezing down my column. i use to keep the vacuum running with EVERY valve open except the main discharge valve and one to my recovery tank. (the valve between the column and honey pot) If the discharge was open i felt any remaning water would be forced up from the tane and also me being a stoner i sometimes forgot to close it when i released tane from the recovery tank. Note-I didn’t have a bi-directional but did have another hose from the top of my column connecting to the the top of my honey pot chamber. I had a fully circular flow CLS because i bottom soaked my material to the top and let it pour out of my top line into the hemispherical sphere.
-5th evrything is about slow and smooth. when i released tane to quickly from my recovery tank it heated up my condenser coil i used as a heat exchanger that caused violent reaction to the dry ice iso i was using for a coolant. this isnt good fam. slow and steady.

6- Fast foward to final moments before your solvent is fully recovered. They have a brief second where the butane looks like the bubbles arent popping and at this moment a new set off vacum oven bubbles occur. When these vacum bubbles occur i let it get to a half circle in the middle of the platter. Meaning i didnt recover max amount of tane. I felt the solvent was a barrier for oxygen and humidity. If i recoverd every drop i had nuking happen.

6th- Before i broke pressure in my system after undoing all the clamps I closed off all valves to the shatter platter chamber and im talking about a very slow release to my bleeder valve. The bho is exposed and i didnt want want oxygen and humidity to rapidly hit my porous oil.

6th- Scooping out the bho and applying it to parchment or ptfe paper is an art. Its a single swipe of no overlaps. I typically can do a qp on a tray with it not having any hits on the wall in vacum overn.

7- I preheated my bho in oven to about 92 F than i used this as my baseline. i let this sit for about 20 mins or until i no longer see fluxation in my oven do to degassing. Your oven is not completly uniformed heated at this point still but no fluxation i knew it was fine Than i increased 1 degree at a time until till i seen my bho break a certain point where there is a shit tone of mini bubbles of tane that broke the viscosity of the oil. Note- release valve in oven is a slightly open not wide open setting. Now close off your release valve when you see these bubbles. You know accomplished your highest setting for the oil to be. Now slowly open the vacum valve (note make sure its closed and fully vacumed before doing this bc ur pump is bae and she likes to spit back) Now here is the trick to stacking all your slabs in the oven at one time and also controling the bubble height. Once the bubbles are about to hit the top tray close off your vacum valve and let it decompress by itself off gassing. Once your layer is about stable. Slowly open vacuum and shut off when it tries again to hit the top tray. Repeat this procedure till it doesnt want to hit it anymore. Now you controled your bubble and ready for full vacuum. WHile its fully vauming i decreased my temperatures to about 88. You will get an eye for the oil as this can move slightly depending on strain. I let this happen until minimal bubbles are occuring with my slabs it took around 18-24 hours but some strains it was two days!. Now for fliping dont open the release valve rapidly. SLow and smooth. Once you can open. time is of the essence. Have your sheets cutted out and ready for flip. THis is another skill you will pick up. Flipping stuck slabs. If you cant flip the slab than it was to early to take out but its cool no worries. just put that puppy back in and increased to the highest settings you established earlier to ensure no moisture pick up and repeat first full vacuum pull without letting the bubble down remeber to decrease temps as you used for the full first pull) Now you flip your first slab. Oven is at 88 increase to your max temperature setting you established earlier. Repeat the First full vacuum pull procedure. if the bubbles try to hit the top of the tray again than repeat bubble decompress procedure. Once the bubbles wont hit the tray and full vacuum is happening decrease temps to 89. I do this for about 12 hours maybe less. Key is not seeing anymore bubbles as you dont want to expose your slabs to the environment less than possible. Now you only have to keep increasing 1 degree every flip and not raise to your max temps and bring down temps. Now some strains are effin stubborn and you might have to. This was a lot and i suck in english but ill make an easier procedure to follow tomorrow. But here is my results. Ive gotten every time from my method.

[Juice311]

[Juice311]

This is no post process and only from my machine with 4 month old trim. You need to write down your procedures with exact timing and now you have data to help you dial down everything. Stop guessing times how long things take to happen such as filling the column. All this stuff on process neeeds to be exact. Recored it. this will make you a better processor and you will understand how things work and why. Or you can get a degree in process technology like me to understand what is going on

[Apothecary36]

your last statement about recording data is why I enjoyed learning via open blast. much easier to understand whats happening when you can see everything.

[Juice311]

I totally agree! Everybody should learn the basics of the simplest form machinery that is being used. This will help you understand things on a larger scale. The one question i always had at first was like how the hell is people getting way better product than mine out of open blasting. I was beating myself up at first about this. Than i broke it down what every function i did for open blast. Such as cooling tane, cooling tubes with biomass, A slow flow of solvent that caused no pressure/temperature increase in my process. temperature of oil in pyrex compared to vacum oven temps. That helped me reconstuct a better proccesing unit and an easier way dialing down my system with my previous recorded data!

[midsfactory]

dry your material

purge:

full vac @ 85-95F (viscosity dependent), 45-1 hour every flip. 5 flips is usually good. Don’t leave it under vacuum or head for more than a few hours at a time. it’s probably done before you think and you’re over purging into sugar.

i make shatter almost exclusively 5 days a week and never sugar. been doing for 7+ years. passes Rec tests. PM for more help.

[Juice311]

Also one last thing have you positive pressured check your system for leaks? I’m not talking about vacuming down and see if the psi gauge moves. In the past I had an incident where negative pressure was good but positive pressure showed the leak. All you have to do is the soap/water in a sprayer bottle method. Spray around every clamp and every hose connection. If your lines aren’t insulated spray you lines. You should be doing this safety check every run. I know your running outside but this is still needed for this purpose.

[Crash]

This is so frustrating. I can relate to everyrhing happening in the first post.
All my slabs nucleate in the first corner i start spraying and grow from there.
The only thing i can think of is humidity in the air. This problem only started in spring

[Californialab]

How’s the clarity on the wax? I noticed during the summer heat it is way easier to make foggy wax. The fats/lipids can lead to nucleation. During winter when it was freezing outside I could effortlessly make the absolute clearest slabs, but now I’m noticing more fog in the oil which I believe could be the culprit in the recent nucleation issue I have been having.

[Justincase]

For me it was going into winter. I actually think that it may have had to do with my then 120f honeypot that I proceeded to run even after supersaturation. I am no wizard like these other guys, but in my simple mind, there is less butane to move around a gas bubble, which means the oil is flexing around it, and that creates that notorious violence and bubbling in the wax that ruins glass. I was able to easily switch over to making sauce, crystal type formations, so I quit trying to make shatter. After I corrected that, I have made it, but making shatter out of good material, at least in my opinion, is like having the knowledge, parts, and facilities to make a Lamborghini, but making an 88 Honda instead, but to each their own.

Told that story to tell this story,

…And that according to my best guess based on the troubleshooting we were doing, was our problem. don’t use hot water to take all of the butane out. If you have a pump that is, use that to create the negative pressure (which gives it a relatively lower boiling point WHITHOUT THE INTRODUCTION OF ACTUAL THERMAL ENERGY) on that instead of bulldozing it with thermal energy. Again, I am no wizard, but I am pretty sure that anything that might be in that stew you’re making, has a lower boiling point in degrees as more vacuum is applied. That’s why it happens in the vacuum oven. If you were letting it sit too long in the honey pot and giving it even an extra 5°F, that’s gonna play a huge role as more vacuum is applied. I also went from a $250 Robinair to an Edwards xds. Shit changed, full vacuum was better, And though I think it was the hot water bath’s temp, My vacuum pump is what pushed it over the line. It took me four months And to me a shitload of money to figure it out.

Google H2O boiling point at different vacuum pressure’s. If I remember correctly, I think when your at like 29” and change, water boils and 5 celsius or close to. I’m sure wax, though not the same, is similar in ways to this.

Food for thought.
I hope this helps, and again I am no scientist, if I was wrong in any of the concepts, Let me know so I’m not a dumbass twice.

[Justincase]

Every 2 weeks to 150 psi for 2 hours when we shut down for the full breakdown… I think I was over cooking it in my honeypot…