just kind of a personal comment.
every few months i have a soda. i get either a craft
rootbeer or a mexican soda. both are made with cane
sugar. so myself will not buy another kind. used to make
my own soda. was same thing real sugar. btw c&h is cane
sugar. most others are made from beets.
good luck on your venture.
5 Likes
I’m already all in. Just pulled the trigger on a bunch of equipment lol.
Bought about 6 or 7 different kavas. Mostly noble I think. There’s some really good information on the kavaforum actually but it’s pretty dead as of late.
I got from three recommended and still (from what I see) in business companies;
Art of Kava:
-Temotu Purple Kava Single Cultivar
-Temotu Purple | Lateral Roots | (For the uninitiated, lateral roots contain more kavalactones, which means more potency, the reason I got the same type is because one SHOULD be significantly stronger than the other but it also produces noticeably different effects)
-Kelai Kava Single Cultivar
The reason I have so many singular cultivar instead of blend is because they produce clearer effects on the user from my experience and reading.
My main goal in testing so many is because I want a heady euphoric feeling in as strong of a root as I can get. If you look those up though you’ll quickly see how expensive this shit is for how much yield you would get. Not fun. Hopefully I can strike a business relationship with one that I fancy. But these companies and most domestic / USA shipping farms and kava companies are extremely anti commercialization. You’ll quickly notice that none of them have bulk pricing and none of them offer discounts.
Moving on.
Squanch Fijian Waka- another heady effect.
Bula Kava House:
-Melo Melo Kava ; unlike the heady ones ones this is mostly a heavy body high and sedative
-Waka Kava Powder: the same root as Squanch, different farm want to see the difference.
Once I have all of these on hand I will be testing them all with the traditional blender prep method and grog/ Bula drinking.
Because I don’t drink the stuff often or a lot. I’ll probably spread this over a week or two so I’m not feeling high all day because I don’t really like feeling high off anything.
1 Like
Also I pivoted to supplements for various reasons. Will be making pills as of now and maybe candies in the future but I don’t really love the drink making process and all the shit that goes into it like shipping costs.
Using gel caps. Idk how much of this I want to document specifically because I do want this to be a business and people with a lot more money can get this on large scale much faster. But I’m moving quick. So we’ll see.
Have ordered all necessary equipment. Including a very expensive ball mill, hope it’s worth it.
Will be working with my website builder on well the website next week. Along with contacting my label guy to get him in the loop. Business cards, logo design will be on Fiverr too.
If anyone is good with AI logos let me know I’ll pay for your services.
I think that’s all the developments so far. Originally I was going to try to reinstate my old LLC and file this new one under it but I remembered it’s probably impossible to do that. So I’ll be setting up the LLC and banks etc this weekend and beginning of next week.
Fuck. Much research. Reading through the cGMP from the FDA. I’m fucked. The reality is. There is no way in god’s green earth I can do this legally not from A kitchen not from my house not from anywhere except inspected fda compliant facilities. Which means I need to private label this shit after I spent thousands on equipment. Pissed.
I still need to create the formula I guess so it isn’t A total waste. But selling this shit is basically A one way ticket to jail or at the very least a strong insinuating letter from the FDA. So I’m going to create the formula. Sell a couple locally but not online. And then go to private label with the formula and hopefully someone on this planet can make this shit because turning kava into a liquid then a powder through dehydration is… HARD. Who tf has a dehydrator and a strainer in their facility. Fuckin fuck fuck. I don’t have one million dollars to create this shit myself. Ugh. Anyway I will prevail just a huge realization that sucks ass.
1 Like
Have you seen this thread?
2 Likes
I was actually going to say the same thing. Sucalose messes up my gut, I dont know if its affecting the microbiome or what but Its awful.
2 Likes
I have. I do not have the knowledge or the ability to do any CO2 extraction. In addition, I could actually just bulk buy Kava extract. The problem is, even though the kavalactones seem to be significantly higher at first, there is a general consensus that kava extract does not ever feel the same as kava produced traditionally. I’m not a chemist, so I don’t know why, but I assume that somewhere in the process (which is often actually done with ethanol on the market extracts) a critical component that aids in the effect people get is reduced.
Instant kava, what I’m making has the unique advantage of being traditionally made kava, with no chemicals, and still being semi-soluble. And incredibly potent. My method is probably primitive because once again I am not and do not plan on learning Ph.D.-level chemistry lol.
And because I am making a powder and not a liquid or… vape (someone asked if the extraction was smokeable LMAO) I think that CO2 extraction would still require an extra step to get into non-gel pill form.
I started rambling I think, ADHD. Basically, I looked into extracts and right now it is not one of the better methods for my final product + even if I wanted to do it, I couldn’t because I don’t know how.
I looked a bit more into contract manufacturing. Because of the process I am using (making kava traditionally then using that to create something completely different, then mixing that with other powders, and finally putting it into a capsule) I will almost certainly require the use of different facilities, uh oh.
As of right now, I think that the only way the first process can be completed is through a supplier that already produces kava products, and hope that one of them would be willing to work together. From there if they do not have the ability to dehydrate, it will need to be sent to a facility that can then turn the liquid into a powder. From there the powder can go to a supplement facility, to be mixed with the other ingredients to finally be pilled and bottled. Price for sure. Because this is not all in one building and because each manufacturer has MOQs, I am looking at a rather high price per bottle just to get it to my door.
So, for now, that’s where I am at. I will call a bunch of manufacturers when I have time this week to see if any of them can fit my needs. Also will call up an office space near where I am to see what insurance I need and the price of their 100-250 sqft units. If the requirements are crazy high I will just use a virtual office for now (google is gonna hate me) until I can get everything else.
Full steam ahead focused and poised. Sleep is nonexistent. I’m taking 15 credits and I work 2 jobs at 60 hours a week. HOLY.
EDIT: For clarification, it would look like this
Facility 1: Kava Root to GROG > Facility 2: Grog to Instant Flakes > Facility 3: Instant Flakes to powder + other ingredients to pill and packaging. ; this assumes that a pharm/supp manufacturer can turn a raw ingredient into a powder if they can’t they suck but I have a strong feeling they can.
A 3 facility supply chain in theory shouldn’t be too hard especially if the first 2 can be combined. The problem is cost (it always is). The most pricey would probably be the GROG to Facility 2 because shipping liquids is a bitch, if they can be in the same state and even city it would significantly reduce costs.
To say the least, I am getting into THE WEEDS. A lot of this shit simply isn’t googlable (my best friend). So if anyone has any input at all on this process please let me know.
Im not sure what I am missing here, but why brew it into a drink at all if your end goal is powder for capsules? Why not just get high quality kava root and powder it and pack capsules with that?
Hey man, typical kava extract is very different from standard grog for two key reasons.
Singular extraction methodology - i.e., polar hydrophobic lactone extraction
which is missing the non polar, hydrophilic kavalactone sections in entirety.
If going from root to grog to powder, consider doing two washes - a first wash with your root being “shredded” - (high sheer force helps) within acidified/distilled water
and a second with EtOH, mix your yields and see what you get.
4 Likes
Ah yes.
Kava powder is typically the entire root. Including all of the fibers bark etc. Taking that shit will destroy your stomach like nothing ever felt. It has to be processed into something. The “traditional” method is kneading it with water in a strainer bag to get all of the active ingredient out. But that left over water taste gross
1 Like
I was thinking about this. The etoh should definitely bring out everything missed. And it should entirely evaporate out. My biggest fear is; not having my dehydrator go boom when the alcohol heats up in a tiny enclosed space.
Think this is a reasonable fear? If so, what do you think I can do to mitigate.
1 Like
Between us girls, if you don’t want to upcycle/recycle your Etoh - why not go with a vac oven with an auxiliary cold finger insert to your exhaust line out of the oven or dual cold trap - rather than a dehydrator?
Many reasons to go with this piece rather than a traditional dehydrator, especially since you can direct evacuated gas, lower boiling points, etc.
Or if you really want to have fun, get a bench top rotovap;HTF; and an oilless vane pump?
From one student to another, when buying equipment think about potential future endeavors and their unknown applications in an emerging market. Lots of vac ovens being liquidated left/right currently too <3
Last gratis spoon from me though, lets chat roots sometime man
Curious why you think there’s no way to do it legally, or what the exact legal implications here are? Plenty of people sell kava online. And ready made shots like “Feel Free” are in every gas station practically - although I know they are facing a lawsuit. However, kava doesn’t fall into any legal gray area.
Random aside - I happened to see this company a few weeks ago and it piqued my interest. I haven’t seen many/any pre-made drink mixes that use kava, or that are marketed in any smart ways. https://www.calmingco.com/
I was a little emotional when I wrote that. Remember this a diary from someone with not a lot of experience lol.
But I can do it legally but not right away. Because, I need liability insurance and the product needs to be produced each component in a compliant space. Labels, etc all need to be compliant. I don’t advocate for doing anything illegally, but if someone were to replicate what I’m doing they could probably get away with it for a while but make enough money and the FDA will come eventually.
I want this to be something I can take pretty far. And I don’t want to go to jail or get a warning letter. So doing it all the right way the first time is really important and also pretty pricey. But I’m willing to take the blow.
It’s not about grey area. Just that the FDA has been cracking down hard on supplements in general.
Also, idk where you are but kava drinks are not common where I am. I frequent many headshots and gas stations you name it, both sketchy and legit. Do not see kava. It is not well known where I am and I see a market, even if it was known people are making money off of it which means I can too.
1 Like
Above all, be sure it’s safe for human consumption.
They’re cracking down on it because “supplements” are often damaging and sold strictly for profit… and this:
Is why…
It’s also the same reason all the legislators are cracking down on converted cannabinoid nonsense, the world is going electric and the market is going organic. 
I care nothing more than to provide people with a pleasurable and enjoyable experience while making sure they are safe.
In final production, not a single non-organic chemical will be in my pills. Shit, the entire premise of my new company is that everything you ingest (beyond the vegan gel caps I guess) is from earth and not chemically manipulated beyond physical changes.
I think that organic is the way to go. The earth provides a multitude of beautiful compounds and botanicals that we can enjoy without adding a bunch of shit that is questionable for our health.
With the being said, the FDA does have very stringent requirements on entry to the supplement field and with good reason. And, within a reasonable time frame I fully plan on meeting and exceeding each and every one of them.
But: as long as I live in a free capitalist marketplace I will absolutely utilize it and for me morally as long as I’m not fucking people’s lives up, if I set a price and people but it I will sleep sound as a rock each night.
I’ve been testing kavas. 5 cultivars down. Trying to get over reverse tolerance. I hate the way this stuff taste so much. At Kava bars it’s no where near this disgusting. I am torturing myself each night drinking all of this kava. It makes me want to throw up. Beyond numbness I feel no noticeable effects. Pretty unhappy. Currently have a grog in the dehydrator as we speak. It does take very very long, 6 hours at least. Might go with the vacuum oven but will start with the dehydrator. Also my ball mill (Rock tumbler) sucks ass.
1 Like
Sounds like a product nobody wants to buy
2 Likes