Researchers Say Vitamin E Likely Isn’t the Culprit in Vaping-Related Ailments

Safety Regulation
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Has anyone considered the possibility of the exploding CRC tech being used in these illegal or poorly made legal carts as a carrier culprit? Just a thought not certain that it can be truly the reason, as remediating compounds have been used for decades in perto refine. But used improperly who knows if this could being the underlying cause of the “caustic type” or chemical style burns stated.

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All carts of lead in it. Solder and paint. It is more like “With Lead” and “With Less Lead”.

Still most likely negligible. When we did tests the quantities that came out would require someone to smoke a kilo of oil a day to hit the daily limits.

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No one claimed the Mayo Clinic said vit E acetate was safe or unsafe. But they did say they found no oil when they looked at lung tissue under a microscope. And that they doubt the illnesses are from lipids, rather, they said it’s from “toxic substances”:

“Although it is difficult to discount the potential role of lipid, we believe that the histologic changes instead suggest that vaping-associated lung injury represents a form of airway-centered chemical pneumonitis from one or more inhaled toxic substances rather than exogenous lipoid pneumonia as such, but the agents responsible remain unknown.”

I do agree no one knows what it is yet, but this report strongly suggested based on evidence that it’s not caused by vitamin E oil (including acetate), or terpenes by inference (because they too are oils, AFAIK).

Check out my response on this topic in this post: Researchers Say Vitamin E Likely Isn’t the Culprit in Vaping-Related Ailments - #40 by anon87263109

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I think the phrase was " not likely the sole culprit… if resposible"

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You position is not supported by the Mayo Clinic report. And that’s why it’s not supported in the WSJ article.

In other words, the first sentence of the WSJ article is based on evidence. Yours is not. The Mayo Clinic makes it clear they don’t suspect lipids (oils) as the cause.

“Researchers at the Mayo Clinic have all but ruled out vitamin E oil and other thickeners as the possible culprit in a wave of vaping-related illnesses and deaths, deepening the mystery of what might be at fault.”

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I read what you’ve been posting. My quote came from Larsen.

Edit
I am not taking a position. Just making clear vit e acetate is not ruled out.

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Thank you. I didn’t realize you were quoting him. Can you please share the full quote? I searched in the WSJ article but I didn’t see it.

Edit:
The Mayo Clinic researchers ruled vit E oil out as much as researchers are generally willing to rule things out in cases like this. They said they didn’t find lipoid pneumonia, and they don’t think lipids are the cause based on their research on actual lung tissue of 17 sick people (2 died).

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But stop, what is the point of using vitamin e? Is it necessary? Nope, it’s just to scam people

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Products that can be used to dilute a cart without reducing the thickness a great deal are in great need. Some people don’t want to hit a 80%+ THC cart, and some people can’t legally. Some states limit the amount of THC in products, so some companies may be forced to use such a product that solves those problems. Also, vit E acetate is supposed to be great to keep high CBD carts from crystalizing.

EDIT:
I agree though, products like vit E acetate can be used by bad people to rip off customers. But there are lots of other products that can be used for that purpose (like thick center posts and heavy mineral oil) that those bad people would use insated, I assume.

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Words from my state senator spoken directly to me a couple weeks ago “Knowing what killed 480,000 people is one thing, not knowing what killed 6 people is another”

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Listen!

If you cant handle a 80% thc cart, DONT HIT IT HARD!!!

Gesus

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Do you work for floraplex?

Edit sorry bad joke

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Delta 8, so no, that is all greedy excuses

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I need to learn about that. Sounds very cool.

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Nope. And I don’t work for MassTerps, Mr. Extractor, Honey Cut Labs, Perfumers Apprentice, or the other doznes of companies selling vit E acetate right now on the row in LA.

But I do like to read a lot, and the WSJ article stuck out on this topic. I don’t like to see people destroying an entire industry, like how vaping is getting banned in lots of states. Because that seems to have happened after people blamed vit E acetate and THC from illegal sources.

EDIT:

Edit sorry bad joke

No sweat. It’s funny!

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Speculation without any means to test is pretty useless. It could be so many things. They all could’ve had a similar bacteria virus from the factory, they could’ve all had a similar unrelated illness and all just happened to all vape.

It could be sooooo many things, without access to data we don’t have, speculation is just going to lead to panic, like the vitamin e that this article is disproving.

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Metals like chromium can have corrosive compounds. I don’t know if the heat from the vape would be enough to create them. Maybe a residual from manufacturing?

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the WSJ artical claims the researchers has “all but ruled out vitamin-e”.

the letter to the editor of the New England Journal or Medicine simple states that

Although it is difficult to discount the potential role of lipid, we believe that the histologic changes instead suggest that vaping-associated lung injury represents a form of airway-centered chemical pneumonitis from one or more inhaled toxic substances rather than exogenous lipoid pneumonia as such, but the agents responsible remain unknown.

ie they were not drowning in oil.

if gamma tocopheryl acetate oil happens to cause a toxic reaction, then it is still a valid possibility for the proximal cause.

imo the WSJ over states the case.

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This NY Times article is really good. Lots of quotes from Dr. Larson of the Mayo Clinic study. Which looked at lung tissue from people who got sick as far back as 2016 and 2017.

Initial concerns have focused on the possibility that the lungs were clogged by oils being vaped, like THC oil itself, or other oils like vitamin E acetate that are sometimes used to dilute or “cut” THC for sale.

But Dr. Larsen said the Mayo researchers saw no signs of oil accumulating in the lung tissue. Instead, they saw many immune cells called macrophages with what he described as “the fine, foamy-looking appearance that is characteristic of chemical injuries.”

“So maybe we need to look more closely at the chemical compounds, and not just oils, but the chemical constituents, to figure out which ones are injurious,” Dr. Larsen said.

He said patients with lung illness from vaping had tissue damage and cell death in the lining of their airways, and in the lungs themselves. As the body reacts and tries to heal, the tissue swells and can narrow the airways. Dead cells slough off into the airways, blocking them further, and fluids leak into the lungs’ air sacs.

“All 17 of our cases show a pattern of injury in the lung that looks like a toxic chemical exposure, a toxic chemical fume exposure, or a chemical burn injury,” said Dr. Brandon T. Larsen, a surgical pathologist at the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Ariz. “To be honest, they look like the kind of change you would expect to see in an unfortunate worker in an industrial accident where a big barrel of toxic chemicals spills, and that person is exposed to toxic fumes and there is a chemical burn in the airways.”

The injuries also look like those seen in people exposed to poisons like mustard gas, a chemical weapon used in World War I, he said

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Oil had nothing to do with it, nor did exogenous lipoid pneumonia, according to the Mayo Clinic study. And they found no oil in lung tissue from sick people going back as far as cases in 2016.

Chemical toxicity is different than oil causing the issue due to lipoid pneumonia (which is what people were claiming so far). It could be caused by all kinds of things, for example the Mayo Clinic think it’s from caustic toxins or chemicals, but what they don’t think is that it’s oil related.

I’m not sure, but according to Leafly it seems these companies are not selling gamma tocopheryl acetate?

Back in 2016 and 2017 I don’t think anyone was using vit E acetate in vapes.

EDIT:
The quote from the Mayo Clinic study says they don’t think it’s caused by oil. They said the patients didn’t have lipoid pneumonia. The WSJ and NY Times articles were written after the reporters spoke with Dr. Larson for more context.