Researchers Say Vitamin E Likely Isn’t the Culprit in Vaping-Related Ailments

That’s what I mean by non-invasive. They didn’t look at lung tissue. I think in that quote they are referring to the cells they found, which are lipid-laden macrophages. Those cells can be the result of endrogenous lipoid pneumonia, or things like vaping PG/VG (at least in mice).

Correlation does not imply causation.

And now we’re back to the Chinese chemical weapon theory. Now that they’re not allowed to pump this country full of fentanyl as easily, they have moved to intentionally poisoning stoners across America. They’re retaliating to the cia sowing dissent in Hong Kong. Get your aluminum foil on your heads fellas, we’re going down a deep rabbit hole :joy::rofl::joy:

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I don’t mean to say vitamin e is the cause by any means. I’m just saying that these cells have been demonstrated to be present in people that have associated symptoms. So I’m thinking ruling OUT vitamin e isn’t a good idea yet either.

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The thing that makes me feel dirty about this is how fast and broad they came down on a huge industry after a few sickeness and deaths, when alcohol and cigarettes have been wiping people out forever. Banning all vape products in a state is a pretty broad move. While I’m sure people are getting sick, the political part of all this is pretty alarming

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Cigarettes kill half a million people a year in the US alone.
Vapes killed 6 people and got banned lmao. I wonder if lobby dollars from cigarette companies have anything to do with the double standard here. :thinking:

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That’s a fair point. But I would say this very strongly points to it not being vit E acetate, or terpenes (which are oils AFAIK).

The fact they found no oil is huge. And the fact Mayo feels stronly enough to suggest it’s not vit E oil (or terpenes by inferenace) is very important to add to the discussion.

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I think the body count is 12-13 now, but also the total number of people who became severely ill and ended up in the ICU has likely surpassed 1000. Cigarettes are terrible for society, but don’t discount that fact that this has costed $10’s of millions in medical expenses, not to mention permanent lung damage for hundreds, maybe thousands of individuals.

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I am not trying to make it out to be no big deal…
6 had died when the ban came along… Even if all 1000 died, still barely a fraction of what cigarettes do. My point is that our government isn’t trying to “protect us.” This ban is not for Public Health and Safety. If these young vape companies had the capital that Marlboro does, no way we would be seeing a ban right now.
Banning the things so everyone buys on the black market is not the smart solution at all.

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And to play off your $10s of millions that it has cost in medical expenses… How many $$ in medical expenses do cigarettes/alcohol cause per year? That’s not an issue?

Here’s the full Mayo Clinic report:

Pathology of Vaping-Associated Lung Injury

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caustic… do you guys think triethyl citrate could be responsible?

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Not sure. But people have been using Tec Temper from Abstracts for years I think. That’s mostly TEC I think.

TEC is in e-cig juice in many cases, just in small amount.

I completely agree with you. All the major tobacco players have the FDA’s testicles in a tight clamp made of sweet-sweet cash.

This whole ordeal is to induce legislation so the fda/big tobacco/healthcare industrial complex can be the ones holding the reigns on the vape game.

Vaping is going nowhere. It will slow down for a few months and then have a new face and regulatory framework with self-interests in mind. Back to business as usual.

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Couldn’t agree more my man. :metal:

Pg/vg is the base of most cbd store sold carts. I visually seen this with my own 2 eyes, and laughed at the vape shop owner selling them. I had to explain what exactly a 1 gram cart that the package said 135mg of cbd meant, and how much cbd is actually in the 1g cart.

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I wondered if something like this would happen from all the “terp” smoking. I know those terps clean my table good i can only imagine what it does when heated.

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Just wanted to repost this. I think he may be onto something.

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Couldn’t agree more. But no oils were foundso hopefully that crosses that out.

Heard of a guy that spilled terpenes on the floor and burnt through his epoxy

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They in no way shape or form say vitamin E acetate is safe, or not to blame. Nor did they say it was to blame due to the fact that no one knows exactly what is causing it, yet.

After reading the Mayo Clinic report directly, I have doubts that using the presence of lipid-laden macrophages as a way to diagnose exogenous lipoid pneumonia from vaping is legit. And so does the Mayo Clinic.

In other words, just because they found lipid-laden macrophages it doesn’t mean they are the result of exogenous lipoid pneumonia. Here’s the key part of the Mayo Clinic report showing more deeply why they don’t think vitamin E acetate is the cause:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1913069

Much recent attention has been given to the possibility that vaping-associated lung injury may represent exogenous lipoid pneumonia.

However, none of our cases showed histologic evidence of exogenous lipoid pneumonia and no radiologic evidence thereof has been found; this calls into question the diagnostic utility of identifying lipid-laden macrophages or performing oil red O staining on bronchioloalveolar lavage fluid as a marker of vaping-associated lung injury, as has been proposed.

The significance of this observation remains unclear, particularly in patients with a known vaping history; until more data accumulate, our observations suggest that this finding should be interpreted with caution, as it may simply be a marker of exposure and not necessarily a marker of toxicity.

Although it is difficult to discount the potential role of lipid, we believe that the histologic changes instead suggest that vaping-associated lung injury represents a form of airway-centered chemical pneumonitis from one or more inhaled toxic substances rather than exogenous lipoid pneumonia as such, but the agents responsible remain unknown.

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