r134a hemp and cannabis extraction advice and comments


#41

I didn’t want them showing up, it was a decision above me. I was able to see them leave, nearly as quick as they showed up.

Learn how to read.

I stated that they were residual solvents.


#42

Wow and you want to preach to me on being rude? I mean no disrespect but when when blatantly wrong factually inaccurate information is presented as fact, things that are easy to verify, it irks people who know better.
Since you went there I know how to read! Now if you could only interpret what you are reading you would be a little better off.
My point is you DIDN’T have residual solvents. Correct me if I’m wrong or am just to stupid to follow along, but your solvent in this extraction was R134A right??? Think about it for just 1 second, R134A boils @ -26.3c. How in the … and what makes you believe that its going to just sit there magically floating on alcohol and not turn into a gas above its boiling point and gas off?
What you DID have is residual garbage (lube, oil, etc) that was present in your solvent and therefore introduced to your extract.


#43

Listen, Jack.

You clearly didn’t read when you signed up. You don’t come in here talking the way you have just now and expect no one to fire back. Regardless if you are right about anything.

Got it.

Residual oils, etc etc. Whatever. Again, go all over this forum and see how people interact. They don’t speak to each other like that in here. Watch how you talk to people. This isn’t reddit where you are condoned to come in and slam everyone else. That’s just not how you talk to people here. Flat out.

I approached you with hostility, well, look at how you addressed everyone in this thread. Come in with respect, regardless of your knowledge, and it will be given back. And that’s that.

Have fun.


#44

You’re extremely new here.


#45

#1 1st of all my name is Chris not Jack. Whats your name?

#2 Per your followup post, YES iam new here. I think I have been a forum member now for exactly 43 minutes. Truth be told I joined just to I could chime in and point out the inaccurate information in the thread.
In the short time I have been here I have learned you should be more like Shadownaught. Dude is chill, said thanks for the clarification and even raised a potentially valid stumbling block in emerging alternate extraction technology becoming mainstream.
#3 Your response proves my point, when someone presents information in a way that YOU feel they should know better it irks you.
#4 While we are at it I would like to raise A VERY SERIOUS issue with your posts in this thread. Frankly I am surprised that no one else has pointed this out as it goes against every best practice and industry standard that I am aware of.
Because I don’t want to reread the whole thread I am going to go from memory and paraphrase.
Some people showed up at the cannabis facility where you work, with a technology that isn’t mainstream, couldn’t provide any test reports or scientific data to back up their claims, and told you to test the extract yourself if you wanted to.
Do I have that right? Did you have the extract tested? I already know the answer is no because if you did whatever chemical that was co-extracted with your product would have shown up on the test as a contaminant, set off the red lights and sirens that there was an issue and the extract shouldn’t be used.
Even after you identified they were using industrial grade solvents (Should have automatically been a warning and sufficient reason to perform extensive testing ) someone at your place of employment still decided to go ahead and run with it and take “their” word that everything was cool and put it into production.
Did you ever stop and ask yourself what chemical was being eaten and or smoked that was responsible for the chicken poop flavor?
Were the pens and edibles sold to the general public or through the distribution chain? Who exactly decided that they tasted like chicken poop?
What IF the co-extracted toxin was odorless and tasteless? Would you have continued to use the extraction method all while unknowingly poisoning the consumers of those products all because some Bulgarians (I am referring to the Comerg ownership) who can’t show you a shred of evidence said so???


#46

You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people . Please avoid:

  • Name-calling
  • Ad hominem attacks
  • Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
  • Knee-jerk contradiction

Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.


#47

Sure, no problem.

I only run the butane at my facility. I’m not an owner or a manager that makes those decisions.

I told them they shouldn’t be bringing these guys in.

After they were questioned about the residuals, they replied with the answer to go get them tested.

I didn’t see that it was automotive 134a until after they had left the facility. They were in a completely different area than me. I’m pretty sure I would have said something about that, as well.

Again, all of that is not my department and have scoffed at their ignorance on the subject, repeatedly. I’m just the bho guy. I was just warning the OP to be cautious as he’s in the same state as I and to not use them.

It was sent off for distillate, no other extracts were made, only crude. The distillate had a horrible smell and taste. It didn’t go into any vape products and don’t believe it was good enough for edibles and left behind a funky taste.

Lastly, you did come in with an attitude. You want to talk, talk. You want to argue, argue. You give me an attitude, I’ll fire it right back. You engage and not get pissy about things you aren’t knowledgeable about, I’ll engage and not get pissy at you for being rude to the first three people you’ve engaged with. Slamming people for mistakes isn’t how it’s done. You didn’t like it when I gave you attitude, don’t get mad if someone give it to you when you came in with it. Makes sense, right? Something that should be common…

Have you ever worked in the industry, for people who have no idea of what’s going on? If so, then you can imagine how this might come about. If not, go get a job in the cannabis industry because most owners are like that. They won’t listen to you, regardless of how you feel, or know. If it wasn’t their idea, you’re wrong. If you do work for a place that actually has an ownership that has knowledge of these things. Then I am envious of you, as that is very uncommon.


#48

I go back to my first response to you, as this is how you showed up.

You throw the rules at me like I was breaking them, but can’t acknowledge that you did that same thing that you are getting offended about.

Ya I gave you an attitude. You were being sorta rude to three people, instantly, before engaging conversation.


#49

THANK YOU!

don’t like seeing folks getting bent out of shape, :frowning:

must admit it’s kind of refreshing when it’s not my fault :wink:

do appreciate misinformation getting sorted.

signing up because you had to correct something does suggest you might have come in hot. I suggest we light a blunt on the embers and pass it round :wink: ok with you @dred_pirate?


#50

I did think of you when he came in. He wasn’t as eloquent as you are when telling someone they are wrong, though. I could use a fatty


#51

Shit… @cyclopath comments sometimes will elliquently make you feel stupid even if your information is right… he gets all bill nie the science guy and shit… lol… well its 6am in the frozen tundra time for wake n bake then maybe a little ICE fishing today…


#52

Everyone will be chill back to you if your responses are nice. Your amount of knowledge doesn’t anger anyone in fact most of us on here who doesn’t know what another user knows appreciates further knowledge . One great example is how the crc came to be, that whole idea was a community collaboration and the crc thread has over 1k posts of people helping out one another.

If you came here to talk shit hold your tongue because this is a community where people help each other. NOT a community of one-upsmanship.

I will google further.into r-134a and see what i find and I’ll look at the current list of ozone depleting substances, thank you for that. You’re actually right I just googled those chemicals toxicity to humans and posted the results. But honestly to mainly keep people safe and me reading into those i was like oh shit i should let the community know.

This is a community of hobbyists, career workers and people who respect other people. Please be nice.

Enjoy F4200!


#53

R134a is the safest and most effective solvent for extraction developed as extraction method for pharma to extract fragrance and flavor, it is the most effective way of extraction of botanicals. Based on the comments seems like many of the people do not have any experience with the technology.
R134a is nonvolatile solvent, it is non explosive, nonflammable and work at low pressure (6-8 bars) and room temperature. Butane and Ethanol are volatile or flamable, CO2 works at very high pressure. Every technology has pros and cons, the benefits of R134a are that you get very close to winterized oil directly from the machine, the solvent is used as delivery system for inchalators, it is much improved version of its predecesor R22.

R134a solvent:
• Cheap to refil and reusable
• Machine comes as a turn key solution- fully loaded and ready to use, no special set up required (no other technology does that and they don’t tell you it will be quite expensive to load it with solvent)
• Very min losses as the system is closed loop
• Nonflammable, non-volatile - easy approval and no building outfitting costs
• Completely Safe (no room outfiting needed)
• Single-step extraction to high quality (av 70% CBD and 85%+ d9) of true full spectrum Preserves the elements of the flower unaltered in the extract including the terpenes
• Low cost of maintenance
• No special skills required to operate the machine
• The extract that comes directly from the machine is on average 70% concentration with about 1% terpens, it also extracts Live Resin (non-decarbed) with high % terpens and acid form of teh cannabinoids (great for neutraceuticals)

R134a has been known to the pharma, fragrance and flavor industry for over 20 years. A detailed Notice of GRAS Exemption for R134a as an extraction solvent was submitted to the FDA in 2001. R134a is widely used as the propellant in inhaler pharma products (for example, to treat asthma). A 1996 report from the National Research Council (NRC), “Toxicity of Alternatives to Chlorofluorocarbons”, states that 40,000 ppm of tetrafluoroethane (i.e. 4%) has no effect on human health. In comparison, 4% CO2 in the air will cause headaches and 8% can result in the victim being brain dead in 4 minutes. Butane and propane are flammable in 6% concentration and can explode. Here is R134a’s safety data sheet from National Refrigerants. The boiling point of R134a is -30C, which makes it very easy to remove from an extract with boiling point of 130C-185C. That is why the residue is not an issue with this solvent compared to butane with boiling point 5C and alcohol 60C.


#54

Is there a co-solvent in the process?


#55

The only solvent is R134a


#56

I’ve witnessed the comerg machine, would this be the same thing you are in reference to?


#57

You still gotta distill the r-134a


#58

What a concept huh


#61

Clarification for anyone
ACS article R134a

Though I’m interested to see how it compares in side by side runs with ntane. There was also a little prize of a rosemary experiment where they extracted side by side with CO2 got a 43% increase simple stuff buts it’s still some data.


#62

@Pure5 I still want your comapny to tell how much residule solvent they’re getting. I looked at their testing, they didn’t tell how much residule solvent is coming back.