Post-processing concepts and maybe we can get some science mixed in šŸ˜‰

So I see a lot of stuff with this is my sop and that is his sop, but nothing about the ideals that shaped the sops really. Iā€™d like to discuss some of that stuff.

Good, shelf stable shatter, as an end product, is usually going to be low in terpene and fat content with up to moderate pigmentation from a neutral solution that was purged under moderate heat(this seems to be the biggest point of debate in shatter teks) and full vacuum in a thin sheet with as little agitation as possible. Anyone got some terpene content range data on shatter?

Then thereā€™s crumble which is another low terpene content end product, but now weā€™re in the moderate to high fat content region. Blah blah blahā€¦ batter is wetterā€¦ blah blah blah sugar is cleanerā€¦ oh a picture!

As an aside itā€™d be nice to do some research into how much of the unknowns in extracted concentrates has been pigments.

Who feels like tearing this quick graph apart? :rofl:

Thatā€™s just the side of post processing that relates to fat and terpene contentā€¦

Thereā€™s actually some great stuff on here already discussing some vacuum free methods, and methods with no heat, even bothā€¦ @NoHeatNoVacuum :wink:

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For what its worth repeating, from only personal exp. And some anaytics and trial and errors, the pigmetaton portion of thw extract is neglible to the wax content(ofc depemging on thw technique applied during extraction.

I would also like to say that your graph might be accurate to what people are posting.

Wax content could be empirically investigated with mass loss with winterization that could maybe narrow it dowm a bitā€¦

As for terps that should be done with proper analytical equipment as is the solvent leftover that plays some part in your equation( guessing here).

We need to attract more skilled people to this conversation with inhouse analysis, that could shed more luminescence to this particularly interesting and underinvestigated subjectsā€¦ So many papers we could writeā€¦

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I like whatchya have charted out here, def crumble or poo with enuff fats/waxes, shatter is a curious one tho - but too much ā€œterpsā€ and it wont set into a glass etc, too much fats and its poo.

I do wonder how ā€œblurredā€ the vertexes b/t each finished form are and how large the relative sizes of the areas of each region are when also considering how the finishing process itself occurs (temps/time/pressure/mechanical and cycles there of). It will take a long wile and alota data to really suss this out but i like whatchay laying out here. We barely have the fats and wax types characterized , especially in regards to different feedstock qualities and whats obtained with different extraction methods.

But still, overall the graph is about as solid as i would think were able to map currently

I see concentrate consistency techniques like oil structuring oil structuring book on libgen

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Something else worth looking at is decarb percentageā€¦ Since when you run very old biomass, it can be quite considerable

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Quick question, why do shatter and crumble have a different fat content if they came from the same run?

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Crumble, sugar, and badder are basically the same thing with differing terpene contents.

The size of the crystals that precipitate determine the consistency of the final extract. Badder has the most surface area in suspended crystals, thus lending opacity.

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This graph is not meant to represent a single run. It is meant to represent the concentrations of terpenes vs fats of various ends products.

Now I think youā€™re asking the question as a thinking exercise looking at it again.

@Franklin and while I do agree with the first statement, I donā€™t know that I can agree completely with the next. Considering how opaque crumble is I think thatā€™d support it having at least as small and numerous of particles as badder. I would further say that the amount of terpenes, and their composition, are the largest influencer on size of crystals in a static post processing system.

@MagisterChemist I feel like that is why old biomass tends to produce sappy extracts which are semi crystal resistant. I actually didnā€™t really add any of that to the equation, but I donā€™t often see biomass beyond the 1 month mark anymore.

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That is a good thoughtā€¦

I can do a terp deg with the current biomasses I have and the HPLC will be online soon, and the biomass is very well stored.

Maybe a fastened herbal drug stability test protocol could be also in place at this considerationā€¦

Doable, definetly doableā€¦

I think the difference with crumble is that its got water content. Whipping water into an extract and then continously whipping until its cool is going to disperse the water while the extract cools back to a solid.

Think of how butter is made. All it is is a stable emulsion.

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Wowā€¦ That really makes senseā€¦

I allways lightened up my rso when I accidentaly got too much water insideā€¦

Thnx bro gonna make some right now! :slight_smile:

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Iā€™m really pretty confident adding water to an extract isnā€™t going to make it crumble. Iā€™m inclined to agree thereā€™s a dried emulsion of sorts thatā€™s forming, but Iā€™d still think the terpene content relates to the fat content which both relate to the amount of thca present as to whether you can get a crumble, batter, or sugar.

Also if you add too much water youā€™ll be creating a breeding ground for dangerous bacteria and mold. Iā€™d have to go look up my old chef information to find the limit.

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Well, we can just agree to disagree on that point then, because I know that it works.

Melt down a gram of shatter and whip a few drops of distilled water into it, then cool. Youā€™ve got crumble.

Thatā€™s not to say I donā€™t think that fats have an influence. Rather I think they help to keep a solid emulsion like the cream in butter.

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I have to confirm this empiricalyā€¦

My water apsirator pulled in the flask with etoh and extract lots of water :frowning:

I scraped the material from the top floatingā€¦

And it turned light brown and very thick consistency instead of the standard dark redā€¦ Just an observation.

Iagree on the micro part definetly

Edit:anyone doing a wash with disti water for any specific purposeā€¦ And i dont mean brine and citric washesā€¦ That also cool :slight_smile:

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Jesus, I forgot how complicated a water activity formula can be :sweat_smile: Iā€™ll update shortly. It was an interesting read, but suffice to say more complex than Iā€™m going to try to break down and check. Just keep in mind water needs binders and if they arenā€™t present free water promotes oxidation and microbial growth. Fats can count as binders.

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What originally put me onto this theory with water is that a long time ago I tried to blow on a dish of butane to try to pop a bubble.

It didnā€™t cause it to turn into crumble but it did turn immediately opaque where I blew at, I assume because the my breath condensed in it.

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Got any pics of your water crumble? Curious what that consistency will look like.

Yea, iā€™d have to find them on my computer itā€™s been so long since Iā€™ve made anything.

I just tried the water crumble thing. Am also curious what your end product looks like.

That was the result. Looks, feels, and acts like chewing gun.

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Try throwing it in a vac oven no heat.

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Reminds me of rosin in that pic. Also, you might need far more mixing still. I know when I turn shatters into batters and crumbles thereā€™s a taffy stage you have to get past.

This is the kind of crumble Iā€™m referring to.

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