Hello there!
I work in tech for a cannabis startup that does not do extracts, yet we have about 100# of last year’s outdoor which have not found a purpose and so I have been tasked with sorting out how to process it in an efficient and low-cost manner and to keep the budget super tight.
I am seeking feedback and/or constructive criticism on my extraction method design. My main goal is shelf stability and preservation of the conditions which would enable the creation of cartridges eventually. (non-decarbed, etc ).
I am aiming to optimize the system for a minimal budget without sacrificing safety, yield, or quality ( to the extent possible ). I have to keep budgeting minimal because we already spent 30k investing in the contractor who produced these flowers, so were looking at a net loss. If there is a contractor who can show us how to break even on this project, please contact us asap.
This is an updated version with insights from @TheLostBiologist and others including
Extraction Method
So given the context:
- A need to process roughly 100# of outdoor that is 8 months old
- The flower has been stored in large vac bags at 55% RH, burped one per 1 - 1.5 months
- The budget aiming towards 2k for setup
- The flower has little value as is in CA market conditions ( 1 year outdoor, literally never had someone asking for that )
What extraction method would you choose?
Top Contenders and why I am currently orienting towards and setting up Ethanol Extraction
1. Rosin Press.
20-ton Dulytek heated press, 30ish micron bags, 175-degree press, pressed twice, RH of material adjusted to 62% before pressing.
- already tried this, and have the machine set up. Quality was great by my standards, but the color came out dark brown ( captured chlorophyll ) but yielded only avg 10%, and was labor intensive.
If you were in my shoes and you already had the rosin press bought and set up, would you take the 10% and dark color rosin and go with it?
Would you Keif and then press?
2. Kief it all then Rosin Press it to Rosin
- Suggestion from a close friend. Should help with the color of the rosin. The lowest budget Keifing machine is about $300 and is out of stock. 2nd lowest budget machine is about 1k. 1k Just to find out if this will work is inhibitive. I do have a Centurion Pro Tabletop Trimming Machine which maybe could be converted into a dry ice kief tumbler. ( Definitely could with a $700 attachment that I would rather avoid paying retail for ).
- Does anyone know how to DIY a Semi-Automated Keif Machine on a low budget? Vibratory motors are 30 bucks. 5-gallon buckets are 5 bucks. Thoughts?
If this was your setup, what would you do?
3. Ethanol Extraction
I started with the simplest method but 140 proof alcohol, hardly any yields and dark sans filtration was a test run checking yields before paying for gear.
Next Complexity up approach: Wash for 3m - 15m while in a freezer, freeze for 2 days then filter out fats and lipids, recapture alcohol, vac purge any traces of alcohol out.
That’s the approach that I am aiming for roughly, although my approach has some weaknesses.
Best Shot at Minimum Viable Process ( minimal cost, scaled correctly for ~ 10lb runs
For extraction:
Supplies List
Thermometer - aiming type
Panda Spinner
Get a keggle, a modified top cut open keg from craigslist for 30 - 50 bucks.
( credit to @cyclopath )
paint mixer
2nd buchner funnel
Party Box freezer with 95% Ethanol + 5% Heptane and Cannabis flower.
Freeze the Ethanol with Dry ice until frosty and viscous on the metal container ( brewer container )
Add frozen cannabis, mix with paint mixer attachment, and hand drill, aim for 90 seconds on the first pass, and 3m on 2nd pass.
Pour into a bucket with 20-micron filter bag on it ( 5 gal home depot bucket )
Lift out the bag, let drain 1m
Place bag in panda spinner, spin, claim additional infused alcohol
Place alcohol infusion back in the freezer, add a bit of dry ice to cool, and wait for visible separation of fats/lipids
Run through Buchner Funnel #1 w course filter
Run through Buchner Funnel #2 w fine filter
Buchner Funnel Filter Stack Design
- Fritted Buchner Funnel with additional filter paper to minimize cleaning time ( replace the filter regularly: determine regularity by flow rate, when it stops flowing well, replace
- 1/2" even cake DE
- 2-3" even cake carbon
Filter until transparent / not cloudy and lacking in any green color, soft on the amber color.
Move into 1/2 gallon mason jars into the freezer to prep for alcohol reclamation.
NOTE: other guides [ 1 ] suggest only having 10% alcohol for removing fats / filtering step, which implies running through reclamation first, and potentially adding alcohol to get to the 10% range, then doing the filter step. Need feedback on this. Seems simpler.
- ( Can the flowers be stored in alcohol over time at this point ? )
- ( How good does my ventilation need to be for this? )
-
- My ventilation is only the option to open a window and door currently, I could add a fan, but the projects are low budget so adding a high cfm fan and roof vent I would like to avoid unless I’m looking at toxic fumes at some point in the process.
Feedback desired.
- ( How flammable is this mixture? Explosive? Or just flammable? I’m asking because I like to vape nicotine constantly and will abstain if anything is explosive )
Then, for filtration:
Leave each jar in the freezer for 2 days to separate, then through the filter: ( update: add some dry ice to speed this up ), wait for the separation visibly of the fats before filtering.
The Filter:
Update: 2 separate Buchner funnels are needed for this setup, due to 2 stages w diff micron levels.
A Buchner funnel with a couple of inches of quicksand de by chemtech, topped with 3-4" of food grade activated charcoal, powered by a solid 4CFM air pump.
Bottom of the layer cake:
I plan to also use a cell membrane filter on the bottom as my Buchner is fritted, and I read that these frits are hard to clean. Cleaning going to be a challenge for me as I don’t have a sink in my shop, Ill have to walk things into a common kitchen.
Does this sound like a good idea?
Recovery of Alchohol via Distillation:
My current approach is a homemade DIY Still from this youtube channel and using an instapot instead of his temp-controlled pressure cooker
*with a minimum temperature setting of 260 deg. F *
I need feedback on this.
connected by an outlet to a non-pvc rubber tube ( temp rated ) to a copper coil through a 5-gallon bucket of water, then draining to a jar.
The plan is to add ice to keep the water temp down, but really receptive to feedback here, am looking around for a cheap water chiller.
That’s my current alcohol reclamation system. The first try was yesterday and only reclaimed 50% of the alcohol. I just took a look at a 2k system designed just for this, and yet it feels kinda stupid to buy the thing for just one run, bout 100 lb of material to deal with.
Anyhow, the system will need to be refined, as without mixing while heating to 260F I believe I am at a massive risk of decarbing my oils, right?
I know that rototaps are designed to modulate the max temp of the material that’s being evaporated, is the temperature of the material a concern?
Does the 260F min heat setting have any bearing on whether this plan is workable?
I do have a hot plate with a stirring mechanism, and I could buy a 5L flask and use that, probably a stopper to feed the alcohol vapor into the still for reclamation.
Would this work?
Gut sense this is my only option, but I would love feedback.
So far I am only in on the project about 1k for this ethanol extract part and I have all my supplies, but I want to know a couple of things
- what risks are there to my system that as a noob I might not be aware of?
- what is the significance of my ethanol having 5% heptane that I should be considering?
- airflow, is opening a window and door enough? Do I need complete room ventilation?
- the smart pot setup: totally dumb right? There’s obviously a reason the 2k ( min ) machines are stirring constantly and providing temp controls that are low right?
On #4… the expensive machines for this purpose operate on a vacuum ( so does the pressure pot, but in the opposite way, it pressurizes whereas the expensive machines remove air, which must have an impact on the boiling point, I would presume.
I am told that the vacuum reduces the boiling point which is “good because” it allows for lower temp processing
but why does this matter?
And would it be safe to assume that by adding pressure ( rather than removing it ) I am counteracting this beneficial variable, and raising the boiling point?
Does anyone know if this is an issue?
- What is my system missing?
Thank you for all the amazing feedback so far!
I have integrated most of the feedback except the rototap so far, now if I replace my homemade still with the rototap this is what that would look like, I think:
- Connect the rototap up to a flow of cold water, to the source of alcohol to be distilled, and to a temperature-controlled water supply.
- It should come with a vacuum pump which will give it a vacuum.
- Use the vacuum to pull in the source material, and reclaim alcohol. Get the mixture evaporated to about 10%, then migrate it to another required addition to this system, ( please confirm? ), a vacuum oven, to pull the last of the concentrates.
Then transfer to a heated stir plate at 140 degrees F, allow to mix until viscous, add about 5% terpenes and 5% viscosity from True Terps, and let stir. 10m later, I believe, the product would be viable to add to carts.
update on decarbing
- based on your feedback and following up with research I now know that since storing for 9m my flowers are already decarbed, and this will actually prove to be beneficial given that they are intended for cartridge loading, and cartridges largely require decarbing to prevent THCA from crystallizing.
- this has been fully answered by [1] but still, what are the minimum viable changes required to this system to make it work?
What are the problems specifically with it and why?
- I understand that decarbing is likely a bad thing unless I want the end material to put people to sleep, but I also hear this is debatable @cyclopath. I just need to know in order to weigh out the variable of the temperature controls on the insta pot vs getting a rototap.
- What low-cost optimizations would you suggest ( apart from dropping 2k+ on gear )
Last thing: If anyone who knows these systems well and is in the Bay Area, CA would consider consulting and/or getting paid to get er done as a team let me know!
Collaboration Proposals
If you have gotten this far thank you for checking this out. My work with this startup is only a small facet of my work in the world, and I am also looking for opportunities to collaborate.
What I am most needing: consultation on getting this right on a budget, help to get it done, and help with networking.
What I can best offer:
I am capable of building out any of the following:
- a website,
- an e-commerce app,
- an on-demand e-commerce app ( like uber for regulated flowers ),
- a defi protocol ( managing a team )
- a defi token launch ( managing a team )
- a “we accept crypto” integration for any business
- a blockchain-based seed-to-sale tracking system that preserves privacy while validating the legitimacy
- while I am in the bay area now, I have an extensive network in Oregon of farmers and business persons
- We have cash for help but we are operating on a tight budget. Still, if you are interested in consulting, coming and completing the project as a team, or doing the run for us affordably, please send a PM or add a comment.
Citations
[1] TheLostBiologist Bucket and Post Processing Tek for Golden Extract - #257 by CannaConnectDirect
