I would wonder if the organic extraction fluid is able to be recovered effectively, and how does that relate to the operational cost comparison to solvent recovery.
85-92%cbd distillate will not be soft unless it has just been freshly processed, it will crystallize very quickly at that % range.
Most processes can be optimized, there are lots of variables.
without seeing the data for how they calculate and verify the yield it doesn’t mean much imo.
I once had a sizable farm who requested a test run on 5kilo crude to distillate before processing all of their crude, it yielded 3.5 kilos of distillate. The crude sample potency tested at 65%. When given the results they said “you barely had over a 60% yield” and sent someone on a 5-6hr + roundtrip to come pick up all the crude. Then a week or 2 later sent him back to drop off everything again to be processed once they better understood/agreed with the math.
I took the time to watch first half of the video.
I agree that he says a few things that are incorrect and further he obfuscates purposefully to avoid telling us what exactly he is doing. I could never figure out whether he was speaking about cannabinoic acids in situ…and he does not seem upto date concerning the morphologies of trichome storage volumes. But he can only be talking about cannabinoics…because of his references to fresh material.
However, and correctly so, I was rather interested in his comments concerning nano-particle dispersions vs turpene/aqueous phase equilibrium-“solutions”of cannabinoic acids and their conjugate anions (monomers…dimers)…etc…hydrates and various ion pairs. The nano dispersion concept in situ deserves attention and binding to the intrinsic biopolymers may play some storage function as well. However, all these elements would be somewhat destroyed by various (excepting perhaps soluble dimers, homocongugates, soluble anionic forms) solvent of choice.
His talk of temperature, made me think of a process where one might simply induce flow of the endogenous terpene/water (hydrosol) in the manner of rosin pressing, where one preserves the natural solvent. His mention of visually observing crystallization is not unlike what happens on butane/propane pour outs…where upon evaporation and reconcentration of terp-cannabinoic results in fast crash.
So I can not really understand…what HE thinks he is doing …or what he is actually doing. Half way through the video…I decided I have to give him a call. Just to serve my curiousity. His concepts of ions and charge need some clarification…
I have a new solid state method…that is going to f**k things up a bit…but it does seem that he may well be on to something similar?
Who knows?
To be clear, that’s the list I suggest to random people on the internet when they ask “what solvent should I use”, not what I would actually use or spend money on myself.
Methanol beats ethanol because the membranes for methanol run about 4x faster than ethanol.
Heptane beats methanol because it lets you not give a damn about water content of your biomass.
Water beats both of them for a significant number of reasons, many or all of which I believe you are aware.
Water well the advantages are obvious but wet from the field is most important and I have not gotten it right yet althou I think most my issuers are the right gear
Acetone nitrile shit yust works
But safety wise a nightmare REALLY
Have the closet medic kno in advance your using it at scale
Warm pentane or petroleum ether 40-60 there are a few tricks with reagents and azeotropes that work great
Wich I use ? All of the 3 in one place or another depends on factors like
Volume electricity reagents availability end product wish
Ethyl acetate
Hmm not in the top 7
Althou safe to certain extent for humans
All my end products are solvent free
In the ppb s wich is easier to achieve if one lets go of the vacuum oven S
And look into vacuum tumblers
Or yust big vessels
My track record will show I never had fear of working with out of the ordinary solvents but that comes with a responsibility you should be willing to carry
Hi, I just joined and have an sfe co2 extraction system for sale. But I am unsure how to post a new thread to share the photos and details of the items. Is this because I just signed up? Appreciate your help!
Indeed, without explicit test results showing what species are both in the crude and final product, we can’t really theorize what is going on in this intentionally obfuscated process.
The more I learn, the more I find myself saying this.
Not necessarily new, an number (3) of us have been working on details and scale and clean up for 5 years or more.
Note the use of the term “anions”….not single, plural and almost Heresy.
Seems like you’ve done a bit more with ACN than you’ve let on?
You must like those perfectly clear crystals?
My take on solvents…but here I am referring to Bench scale work-ups with 1 gm to 1 kg. Experimental not production. Rogue’s and Lincoln’s lists…One has to understand that the beta hydroxy benzoic acid (Salicylic acid) have multiple forms and multiple “dance partners” (@cyclopath) depending on the choice of solvent.
Ethyl Acetate like the ethers and Acetonitrile are polar non protic. This group offers unique solutions as there are no solute (THCA, CBDA) h-bonding interaction with solvent. It is also FDA GRAS and can be used as a direct biomass solvent. It works well. In this class acetonitrile works well as a primary solvent and also in secondary clean up. Slow crystallization of cannabinoics with ACN as solvent ,sort of yields glass like crystals…this might have something to do with the lack of h-bonding.
There is a salicylic acid moiety built into every cannabinoic acids. So do yourself a favor and place the term Salicylic Acid into the Google search engine. Today I get 54.5 million hits. There are reasons for this…mostly because it exhibits multiple forms/states in different solvents and its dance partners are numerous. And it removes the sensation of PAIN from the human consciousness.
I would say from a utility point of view,
1.water and (water/etoh) ,
2. methanol
3. Pentane
Have the most utility doing rapid bench work ups.
But if one just considers the amount of COA labs utilizing Water, Acetonitrile and Formic acid mixtures for LC-RP-HPLC separations…We can not ignore this utility aspect.
The choice of organic when mixed with aqueous phase must be recognized at all times when working with cannabinoic acids, because organic solvents miscible with water have pronounced effects on the pKa values of the cannabinoics and thus represent an alternative method of controlling anion/neutral form ratios with out necessarily changing pH per se (changing the water/solvent ratio).
I am appending a visual aid for those interested in multiple forms and partners. Here Salicylic acid monomer in the R-COOH form is shown in multiple ways interacting with aqueous, polar protic .
Although salicylic is just a model compound to help us think about the cannabinoics, we have to keep in mind the variation of phenol substitution patterns the CBDA and THCA and other cannabinoic acids. These can give rise to considerable differences in solubility in solvents. For instance although THCA and CBDA are isomers look at their elution profiles from a RP-HPLC column.
Now just think of a mixture of anion and neutral acid form , something you might expect in situ trichome storage are at pH 5 or so. Then think of the concentration of cannabinoids in the in situ trichome being high , where every possible dimer may be found. @LiveResin : who knows?
We could take a stab at getting a nice view by modeling said cannabinoics in their average in situ molar concentrations in Spartan and do a DFT calculation to find their most thermodynamically favorable orientations. That would certainly support any theoretical assertions for your solid state extraction. Or it could just be a fun exercise for nice figures on a publication.
