Ok great to know about the the conversion between Sio2 and monosilicic.
The reporting composition issue makes me very nervous. At least with agsil you know what you’re buying.
Which product would you recommend with this quote in mind? Im not quite ready to be making my own yet but bless yall for making this information available, one day soon hopefully. Looking forward to the results of your tests.
Part of the reason for the switch is for less extras not more, definitely dont need any PGRs or extra Mo/B. What a world.
Thanks for your input i will take it to heart. Looks like I might be sticking with my agsil until i have time to refine it. (unless you recommend a 3rd path)
We know AgSil 16H works well and it is really cheap, so that is always my recommendation up to this point. There isn’t any better recommendation that makes sense at the moment, given the science at this time.
There is an entire world if you want to experiment, but AgSil 16H is the sure thing atm.
PowerSi bloom does contain a bunch of botanical extracts that likely contain several naturally occurring PGRs. This is from the description they make of the product in their own material.
Interesting. I had seen PowerSi bloom, and was wondering what the difference was. We won’t know without analysis, but I’d be very interested to know what “botanical extracts” are in it.
A PGR is a synthetic agrochemical. There’s no such thing as “natural PGR’s”. Those are called biostimulants. Our lobbyist and the HPTA are working with the EPA right now who wants to crack down on NOP.
Heavy metals are determined by the source material. Azomite and Leonardite are high in ionic heavy metals that can bioaccumulate. Water extracted, marine-based shale humates may have some heavy metals, but they are chelated and are easily transported out or remediate existing excess heavy metals.
Constant low amounts of free fulvic or chelated (bound) micronutrients tend to raise TAC and terpene levels due to nutrient availability up to a certain point.
I have seen cadmium show up on COAs for what looks like pgr bud. My thought was that the pgrs might be making the plant pull heavy metals from the soil or grow media.
I can’t speak to paclo, daminozide or chlormequat, which are synthetic PGR’s, which I have never used.
I’m a huge advocate for biostimulants- fulvic, amino and organic acids, cytokinin, chitosan, beneficial microbes and silicon from “natural” non-agrochemical sources. If you want to prevent stretch, use those along with higher night temps. They also tend to raise TAC with proper timing. You aren’t risking you or your med patient’s health by using them.
I also use calcium-forward nutrient formulations. It’s the metabolism engine of the plant. Fulvic probably chelates calcium because of the ionic charge. Just make sure your K levels are enough to balance a good amount of Ca.
EDIT: Lead or cadmium can show up in soil naturally, Leonardite based humic/fulvic and azomite. I’m not sure how paclo, daminozide or chlormequat affects nutrient absorption in the final product.
I believe an improvement to your recommended protocol is pre-acidifying the receiving solution to <2.0 pH before adding the silicon solution and maintaining the pH at <2.0 throughout the addition of the silicon solution. To prevent the solution from ever exceeding pH 2.0.
That is one of my mixing protocols I will test once I get around to conducting mixing experimentation and stability testing of various formulations and mixing protocols.
After some light research I have created a half dozen different formulations and mixing protocols I will test soon. And now that you’re going to write another blog post, I will include that new formulation in my testing and any modifications to that formation I may dream up.
How is Dr. Bugbee testing for bioavailable silicon? Molybdenum test strips?
Regarding the dosage of different silicon forms:
Based on the guaranteed analysis of silicic acid (1.54%) and 0.5 mL/gal (0.559 g/gal) use rate for PowerSi Original, at an average density of 1.11625 g/mL from the SDS, they recommend adding 0.665 ppm as Si. Which, according to the guaranteed analysis, also provides 1.803 ppm urea-N, 1.38 ppm P, 1.104 ppm K, 0.148 ppm B, and 0.015 ppm Mo. The SDS claims the use of potassium silicate, but I’m doubtful.
A nutrient solution batch tank at pH 5.5 containing Power Si at 0.665 ppm Si (assuming the guaranteed analysis is correct) is stable for a few days before gelling/precipitation occurs.
Most growers I know who use PowerSi use the Oringal during all growth phases. They don’t switch to Bloom. And I believe Bloom has less Si as silicic acid, but the use rate is 2x to 4x greater than Orginal.
It sounds like you’re confusing synthetic PGRs (plant growth retardants), often functioning as gibberellin (GA) biosynthesis inhibitors, including chlormequat chloride, daminozide, and paclobutrazol with PGRs (plant growth regulators) that include naturally occurring compounds like IAA, triacontanol, cytokinin, kinetin, chitosan, gibberellic acid, brassinosterioid, etc.
Without defining “PGR” and referring to specific compounds, it’s impossible to say if they have the same effect as plant growth retardant chemicals like daminozide and paclobutrazol (from the infamous SuperBud). But typically, the answer is no. And @danielfp’s phrase “natural occurring” is important because many naturally occurring PGRs (plant growth regulators) aren’t ‘natural’ in the sense they are processed. Most naturally occurring plant growth regulators are derived from the processing of natural materials. In contrast, natural plant growth regulators like kelp can be ground up and added to soil, albeit that’s not an optimized use.
FWIW, the umbrella of PGR (plant growth regulator), does include natural biostimulants (e.g., kelp extract) and naturally occurring biostimulants (IAA, triacontanol, cytokinin, kinetin, chitosan, gibberellin, 24-epibrassinolide, homobrassinolide, etc.). And under the EPA, most naturally occurring biostimulant plant growth regulators are often legally classified as biochemical biopesticides. In contrast, synthetic PGRs (plant growth retardants and plant growth regulators) are legally classified as biochemical pesticides (e.g., IBA, NAA, paclobutrazol, daminozide, 6-Benzylaminopurine, etc.).
And although IBA is currently classified as a biochemical pesticide by the EPA, it should be classified as a biochemical biopesticide because it is naturally occurring (like IAA).
Hey Ralf i tried pre acidifying the glycol + water before adding KSi but it gels up instantly. I tried adding acid to the KSi but as i suspected it gelled up instantly also.
Thanks for that.
I call it growtek but its a generic liquid silica
Total Potassium (K) (as silicate) 15.3%
Silicon (Si) 17.3%
Do i need to convert the non DI water additions to ml and take into consideration the density to get total volume?
100mL of DI water
50mL of DI water (from the carnitine)
22mL of Glycerol
33mL of liquid 17.3% silica
13mL of sulfuric acid
25g of Carnitine
= 243ml so
17.3% SiO (should i convert to Si first? 0.625x17.3 = 10.8)
10.8 Si * 33ml = 356 / 243 = 1.46% Si or 2.35% SiO
Has Bruce done any Mono-Silicate research ?
Did you replace Sorbitol 1:1 with Glycerol or reduce the amount.
Im excited about “30-40% monosilicic acid containing product from non-aqueous silicon reagents that are not potassium silicate”. Can you share so i can try some and give feedback
The Solid KSi i have (same specs as AgSil) just doesnt fully dissolve. Always has particles in it. I may try to make another batch and let it sit for a week before using it.
And in your hydro buddy software, i noticed Calcium EDTA isnt in there. Is there a reason you dont use it?
I meant to reduce the receiving solution pH to <2.0 before adding the silicon, not to add all the acid before adding the silicon. In this example, lower purity acid is preferred to avoid dropping pH too low. The process using your posted procedure would be something the following. But this is just off the cuff, Record acid volumes at each addition to reduce mixing time for future batches:
Purified water in the beaker
Place the beaker on mag stirrer plate.
Insert pH probe into water (using a pH meter calibrated to pH <2.0)
Mix water to form a weak whirlpool
Add silicon solution
Slowly add acid to pH 1.2-1.4 (using graduated glass dropper, all glass syringe, or PFE pipette tip)
Mix for a while (10 mins?)
Slowly add carnitine HLC solution to pH 1.8-1.9 (acidifying carnitine solution beforehand may be a good route)
Slowly add acid to pH 1.2-1.4
Slowly add carnitine HLC solution to pH 1.8-1.9
Slowly add acid to pH 1.2-1.4
Slowly add carnitine HLC solution to pH 1.8-1.9
And so on until all the carnitine HLC solution has been added and pH is < 2.0
Mix for a while (10 mins?)
Add glycerol in the same faction as carnitine HLC solution to ensure pH doesn’t exceed 2.0
Mix for a while (10 mins?)
Top up the solution with water to the target final volume
Adjust pH to 1.5-1.75
Once I conduct my planned mixing experiments and stability testing, I’ll share my formulations and protocol.
You don’t want to use Ca EDTA because in most cases you shouldn’t chelate calcium. And besides, EDTA is phytotoxic at higher concentrations (a primary reason Fe DPTA is used instead of Fe EDTA).
Our problem with the EPA is that with foliar use, they want to classify fulvic acid like you said as a “biochemical biopesticide”. It goes against NOP and it’s why we are legally fighting along with HPTA against that arbitrary ruling (it’s not legislature- it didn’t begin in congress).
Our company is fighting against reliance on agrochemicals. A rule like this seems like a handout to Bayer, Syngenta, or Dow. I would say everyone at our company is kind and wants the best health for people, plants and pets. When confronted by one of these companies for testing in conjunction with their products, I was rather curt and made sure they never contacted us again.
Yeah, I have a love/hate relationship with the EPA.
Many NOP inputs are also listed as biopesticides by the EPA, including potassium bicarbonate, potassium silicate, and iron phosphate.
Even if fulvic is listed as a biopesticide, it shouldn’t affect you as long as you don’t make any pesticidal claims. It all comes down to claims made by the mfg.
The real issue with being listed as a pesticide or biopesticide is state rules for pesticide application on cannabis and food crops. Some legal states only allow EPA-listed (bio)pesticidal compounds they whitelist, FIFRA 25(b) exempt (bio)pesticides, and (bio)pesticides ‘exempt from tolerance’ if the rule doesn’t list specific crops or post-harvest only application. Even if they are (bio)pesticides in name only, like IAA, IBA, NAA, chitosan, brass, tria, etc.
Per § 180.910 Inert ingredients used pre-and post-harvest; exemptions from the requirement of a tolerance, fulvic acid is permitted at any concentration in products without registering with the EPA if it’s an “inert ingredient” used as a “carrier.” One could argue FA is a carrier when acting as a chelator. And while that rule refers to powder FA, I bet using powder FA in solution wouldn’t be in violation.
Also, per § 180.950 Tolerance exemptions for minimal risk active and inert ingredients, humic acid, HA potassium salt, and HA sodium salt as active and inert ingredients in products are permitted without registering with the EPA. Maybe one could argue FA products fall under the definition of HA because FA is derived from humic substances, and most FA has residual HA.
If it helps, I recommend TSG Consulting for these issues. They deal with (bio)pesticide registration with the EPA, advising clients how to avoid EPA registration when the product type allows, and fighting EPA listing of compounds that shouldn’t be listed.
@Ralf . From what I have seen, adding concentrated basic silicates to an acid solution will cause immediate gelling of the solution. This is because there is high local concentration of silicate during the addition - much higher than in the other processes - and the high concentration is a much worse than the small amount of time it takes to lower the pH in the normal process.
Another problem is that the formation of the complexes between stabilizing agents and silicon happens much faster at the basic pH and is likely going to be strongly hindered at the acidic pH.
All processes I have ever seen in the literature or that I have witnessed to be successful in practice always have the silicon dissolved and stabilized first, then acid added to create the final solutions.
Let me know what happens with your procedures. My best guess would be that you will have much faster gelling than with the normal preparations.
@AgTonik I have tried PEG 400 and it works great as a stabilizing agent. There are however some concerns about its use in cannabis plants, given that it is taken up by plants and its combustion products could be harmful.
