Seeing those pine resin/distillate slabs in illegal states makes me worry for friends back home. Is there an easy method to test for this stuff? The only thing I know that would be practical from a cost perspective is thin layer, but that doesn’t seem as friendly for the layman
Pine resins have a high melting point (90-150 C )
It might be an indicator
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This has been discussed quite a bit on the site, and there are a number of tests one can do to try and figure out whether you have pine resin in your slabs. The search bar with the right encouragement will yield plenty of info, but if you’re still having trouble:
That has been posted in at least 2 other threads.
Another one is to do a solubility test. Does it dissolve in alcohol? Does only some of it dissolve in alcohol? If any part of your product will not fall into solution, chances are very high (almost certain) that you have some bunk stuff on your hands.
TLC also likely won’t tell you about the pine resin content of the concentrate; it will only tell you how much of it is cannabinoids. Seems the BM has gotten wise enough to stop selling slabs of only pine resin. They mix it with distillate and sometimes terps too. I wouldn’t trust TLC to give the appropriate answer, unless that slab is 100% free of cannabinoids.
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I’m aware of the alcohol and heat methods, but those aren’t great, especially if it’s sufficiently diluted/tampered with. Something akin to reagent testing that doesn’t require any prior knowledge would be ideal, but anything that allows people to definitively know they have badproduct without having access to proper testing is the main goal. I haven’t seen anything definitive to that end.
teaching the alkaline beam test to folks buying flower in NYC might be useful, not sure such a simple solution exists for recognizing pine resin/distillate concoctions disguised as “shatter”.
the fact that pine resin won’t dissolve in 190 proof ethanol or 91% Isopropanol is certainly the best at home test I’ve seen so far.
how much prior knowledge are we talking here?
at a min they need to know that the this shit happens.
then they have to understand that vodka is not 190 proof.
how about trying to work up this method?
https://www.google.com/search?q=colormetric+test+pine+resin
if dissolving in ethanol is too complicated, how do you think boiling in nitric acid then adding ammonia is gonna go?
edit:
the fact that pine resin won’t dissolve in 190 proof ethanol or 91% Isopropanol is certainly the best at home test I’ve seen so far.
“fact”? ummm, not so sure… haven’t actually tried it. so wtf do I know…
https://cannabislifenetwork.com/psa-fake-shatter-explained-silica-pine-resin-or-gum-arabic/
In the meantime, extracts can be soaked in alcohol to see if impurities remain undissolved, but this still does not show if there is pine resin or other alcohol soluble adulterants. Pine resin will dissolve into the alcohol just as thoroughly as the cannabis extract itself.
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Nitric acid is definitely not gonna be idiot proof, lol. Physical properties are probably a good bet for ease of use, how about refractive index? I can’t find info for BHO’s RI values, hemp seed oil is notably different though(apples and oranges, I know).
Maybe I should just order a dance safe kit and some various resins and experiment🤷♂️
https://bwtek.com/technology/raman/
might be a nice way to go.
at least then you know what you know.
raman can even be setup to work with a camera phone as the pickup and a laser and filter
as light source and frequency filter.
the great thing about using raman is it can work off the reflection of your pine block so no
need to damage the goods and risk being unable to return the product if it is not what you want.
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Little price prohibitive, interesting bit of kit though.
I bought some resin to experiment with but it probably won’t arrive until I leave for a few weeks. I’ll test some methods and report back
they use the same thing for detecting drugs through the mail though the tech is called
STRAM it sees through plastics wood ect though it does not see through metals and mylar.
make of that what you will.
the kit might be expensive but that is that kit I just jumped on the first search that come up.
raman is a wonderful technology that can be done for very very cheap if you buy the components
your self.
the idea is you shine a light of a known frequency onto a surface at an angle.
the reflection then goes through a filter that filters out the frequency that the laser was using.
this then goes through a slit which can be made from two razor blades and a chromatic plate
to separate the light frequencies.
this separation ends up a line of rainbow that is in the visible spectrum 
so a vis chromatograph or even a phone camera can be used to take the light into the
digital realm which is then put through a Fourier transform algorithm to give you the spectra.
when light is shone at a substance the electron shells (some one will get al technical on me here as it is not my field of experties and I do hope they do come in and teach us some more about it)
shift from one state of energy to another.
as this happens a new frequency is generated and a spectrum of light is shot out of the molecule
as an photon moving as a new frequency than the original lasers.
this called the raman affect.
this energy jump is different for different functional groups in the molecule and can be used
to fingerprint a molecule and with some funky software even give purities of compounds in
a mixture.
lactic acid content in milk is one use that comes to mind.
there are heaps of diy raman spectrometers on the web here a few for you to look at
The Otter DIY Raman Spectrometer | Hackaday.io
I would really like it if in time we start using these home made devices to follow our chromatographic separations of the cannabis oil.
It would make for a great way to measure THC to CBD content too with a little code and the use
of the Fourier transform libraries that are available for C++ java and python for free.
THC and CBD have one functional group that is quite different and I think should make a big
difference in raman.
the phenol group in CBD is an epoxide in THC that should be just what we need to run remediation
at diy level and know that when the product gets sent to the testing lab that is going to be good
before it even gets there saving money and time.
there diffrence will more than likely change the spectrum that is returned from the molecule
https://hackaday.io/project/18126/logs?sort=newest&page=8
in this diy raman they use the metal out of a recordable cd as the chromatic grating
so this would also mean that STRAM can not see through CD recordables as the cd’s metallic layer
will just work as a de fraction grating and split the light and reflect it.
the filter and laser are really the only cost and there had for under a $100 each.
I would personaly love one of these for christmass
https://www.stellarnet.us/spectrometers/black-comet-sr/
then I would use my own grating mirror clamps and laser source.
a good spectrometer can also be used for star gazing as it will give you distance measurements.
it should also be able to with some tweeking tell thc content of plant material without damaging them
even while its still on the plant growing.
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I have often wondered but never tried …
Is it possible to shoot the light into a glass chromatography column while it is running and
take the spectra from the reflection giving the compound that is going through the column at
that point in time.
live feedback for chicken feed on separations then would be possible
really all that is needed is the right laser frequency and as all vis light goes through glass that would
not be a problem.
also picking the right laser to prevent florescence of the cannabinoids is important but also not a problem
If you whip it and it wont badder, it dont matter.
(If it does badder and you wanted shatter but just wanted to make sure, redissolve in butane and pour out again into shatter)
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what exactly are you testing with this method ?
its ability to be a cutting agent ?
I am sure there will be some polymer floor sealer that will act this way if we look.
Pine Rosin as a Toxic Cannabis Extract Adulterant
https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1298&context=chem_fac
So far the pine resin ive encountered wont badder up…even when i added it into some badder. If its distillate cut with pine resin it wont badder. I may be wrong but i dont think pine resin will badder up at all its meant to stabilize wood which is why it goes back to shatter after you melt it down
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cool thank you for the explanation.
I still think the only way to really know is to measure the compounds inside the substance.
the link above shows that even the pros are having trouble testing for it.
How to avoid pine resin
Telling pine resin apart from genuine cannabis shatter requires a keen eye. Seasoned cannabis vapers can also identify differences in the taste and experience they get. If you cannot tell any aesthetic or taste differences, the only sure way to avoid pine resin is through a chemical test. Take part of the “shatter” and dissolve it in pure alcohol (99%). Shatter waxes and saps should dissolve completely, leaving an amber tint in the solution. Pine resin, on the other hand, will leave white crystals at the bottom of the mixing bowl. Some have also noticed that the white residue ends up on a cloth if use one as a filter between your mouth and the devide you are using, and report it will create a white residue on the cloth.
https://grasschief.com/cannabis-shatter-tips-on-safety-extraction-and-use/
Have you tried testing consistency after decarb? Real oil wouldn’t shatter after, I’m curious if pine resin would
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Which is, again, why I argue for simple solubility tests. If it doesn’t all dissolve in alcohol, don’t ingest it! Doesn’t rule out all potential cutting agents, but at least you know you aren’t dabbing pine resin. 
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thats what the link would lead me to believe as well.
this is also another reason not to with hold methods of carboxylation.
the reason people are doing this I believe is they have decarbed oil and not a high THCA
compound.
if it was easy for everyone to convert back to THCA the safety of street level gear
would increase.
of course they could follow the meth crowd and cut it with MSM to make nice glassy
sheets of the stuff.
may not be pure but its better than smoking pine resin
Adding 4 % of titanium oxide to any compound will scatter the signal that it can t be seen ( this is from the manual)
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legendary post
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totally disagree. if you’ve got distillate, make pens. the margin is great. adding pine resin to distillate to make “shatter” is about increasing profits. plain and simple. some are even selling nothing but pine resin. how is enabling re-carboxylation going to change that strategy?
why perform chemistry if one can just stir in some glue?
I can’t see a single one of these adulterators deciding “hey, our customers want THCA, and we have THC, lets actually give them what they want…”.
Convince me otherwise.
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