Hey all been lurking here a while really trying to broaden my knowledge on multiple topics. So I’ve been reading up on nano and micelles . Really tryna get some input on others experiences. So I’m trying to make a nanoemulsion or close to it and I’m going to be making beverages…doesn’t need to be totally clear like a lot of users on here are trying to figure out (even tho clear is cool) I’m more worried about properly dosed drinks and a somewhat good shelf life without needing to shake the bottle after only a few minutes because of crashing out.
I bought a homogenizer finally (nothing fancy just your average ultrasonic that goes to 22000khz). First question is some people mention that direct sonication produces heat that could destroy my sample. Is there a cost effective way of preventing this ? I.e mabe just using a couple different flasks and switching them out into ice water bath? I also for the life of me can’t figure out how long it would take to sonicate say a 50 or 100ml sample because at first that’s all I’m gonna be working with.
Also trying to figure out the proper surfactant system and carrier oil…and if the carrier oil is even needed. So far from the lurking a list I’ve put together (lacking amounts) is deionized /distilled water, surfactant of choice which I was thinking maybe a combo of maltodextrin and zanthan gum. Carrier oil (combo of MCT and sunflower lecithin) and the distillate of choice. I read some people go as high as 90 percent water and 10 percent emulsifier and oil. I’m really hoping to get a more clear consensus on specific quantities of each though…what do you guys like to use for a surfactants?
Now would it be better to do a coarse emulsion first by just mixing and melting everything together in proper amounts in beaker on magnetic stirrer then hitting that sample with the horn after?? What about temperatures for each step? Only thing I keep reading is to not go over about 50 C but my machine doesn’t have a stop kill
Hoping to get SOP on how long to homogenize smaller samples (50-100ml) .Sure I could R and D all day and start wasting copious amounts of distillate trying to figure this out. Or hopefully some of the incredibly intelligent members of this forum can chime in and at least point me in the right direction. I know I’m pretty much asking to be spoon fed here so I appreciate the help. One of my worries is not getting particle size down enough then trying to go filter through a 0.22um filter just to waste my time (would using a 1 micron still catch everything?? ) Also since maltodextrin and zanthan gum powder can both make water soluble emulsions and even powderize the distillate wouldnt that be similar with uptake time just mixing into water on its own without homogenizing? Or is it worth hitting it with the horn just to ensure long term shelf stability and better bioavailability? Basically I’m hoping I still have use for this homogenizer I just bought because after going down some rabbit holes and reading about making water soluble powder im starting to wonder . I also can’t see how this thing wouldn’t come in handy for many applications though.
Have you considered using the search bar? Its at the top of the site on mobile. Its kinda a mindfuck but on desktop its also at the top of the site. I actually went to the trouble of scrolling through the first 6 results for “nanoemulsion” for you, this might help you out: Water Soluble(Nano Emulsified THC SOP)
If that doesn’t help with your inquiry, i’d suggest using the following search terms in the search bar:
Nanoemulsion
Emulsion
Sonicator
Emulsifier
Polysorbate
Stable beverage
These will point you in the right direction. Best of luck with your search. Feel free to DM if you’d like to spend 15k on a 5 hour consult.
Yes I understand that. Just trying to get some input from people on here but it seems very frowned upon to create a new post lol. I’ve scoured the forums and done plenty of searching. I understand why no one would wanna spoon feed me the info but I just figured I could get on the right track from all the wisdom on here…back to the search bar
New threads are great. Fragmentation of conversation not so much. You want a spoon. So did the last twenty folks who posted on the subject. Going through and collecting all twenty would likely give you more insight than any single response in this thread.
Listing all of them here would help you, and dozens of others following along.
Rather than “I looked and looked and looked”, “I looked, and this is what I found, and these appear to be in conflict, can anyone clarify”…
Cross linking other threads is not about “don’t make new threads”…it’s about “has this been explored before? What might I learn from that previous exploration?!?”
AND, explicitly, you asked if you could skip a step. I gave you a valid reason you might not want to. Especially if you were trying to figure out how to do something you stated you want to understand how to do.
Just be aware that once you decide on a strategy and achieve your desired result, you’re going to want to pay attention to the material on the inside of your chosen product bottles, as many widely used containers in the beverage industry use liner materials that are not appropriate for cannabinoids and tend to pull them out of the beverage over time.
A good way to void the work done to achieve the target cannabinoid ratio.
Ok yeah I’ve heard that before as well! I’m not canning or anything just gonna be using PET plastic and the likes so hopefully that doesn’t mess with anything (not sure if studies have been conducted on that or not yet ) @mj_martini
One of the big questions i still have is would it be better to do a coarse emulsion first by just mixing and melting everything together in proper amounts in beaker on magnetic stirrer then hitting that sample with the horn after?? (Sop I saw said something about switching out samples of the solution in different beakers to keep the temp from going too high. Roughly What temperature do I need to worry about the solution getting to? Only thing I keep reading is to not go over about 50 C but 120 doesn’t seem like much heat at all.
What’s everyone’s favorite surfactant? Has anyone had success making a mostly clear nano emulsion? If so what percentage of surfacent to carrier oil /disty and water did you use?
Would powderizing the distillate with maltodextrin and then helping keep it in suspension within the beverage with zanthan gum be considered nano encapsulation? Would there be decent shelf stability with that route? It seems like that’s kind of the poor man’s route to doing a proper nano emulsion (which I still plan to do once I got things figured out)
No, maltodextrin is used to manipulate the taste and mouthfeel. Big soda companies that use these cyclic polysaccharides are using Cyclodextrin but not for encapsulating large molecules like cannabinoids, just for small flavor compounds. imo doesn’t do well with encapsulating cannabinoids, at least not to a nano scale.
Just mess around with tween 80 and lecithin or vitamin E-TPGS and lecithin. Takes more than one surfactant/emulsifier to actually make a shelf stable product when it comes to colloidal chemistry.
So far i not been succesfull in finding the best nanoemulsion to use to make drinks and powder most don’t have a good bitter blocker. If you have any pointers were to get the right product i would be really happy.
Are you producing the nanoemulsion yourself or obtaining it from another party?
A bitter blocker is only as optimal as your beverage/powder formulation. Bitter blockers have at least one key ingredient that compliments bitter taste. These include liquorish root, mushroom, crème of tartar as some examples. The concept of blocking the bitterness in my opinion is a false assumption. You are working with the bitterness, I thinks it’s safe to assume you can never truly block the bitterness.
. I also can’t see how this thing wouldn’t come in handy for many applications though.