So as another one of the now million pumping out D8 (which one of you fuckers is going to be the first to kill some poor soul with your citric acid laced D8…) the testing labs have REALLY FINALLY shown everyone they’re true colors.

As someone who has screamed from the rooftops for the past 5 years that testing labs are the shittiest most biased bullshit on the planet this whole thing makes me laugh and cry. Because they’re screwing us six ways to Sunday but atleast people see the light.

Take that red pill you poor fools.

These idiots have no idea what they’re doing even though they have a million dollars in testing equipment and ISO 9 billion licensing…


If I send a test off to a lab WHOSE ONLY JOB IS TO TELL ME THE CONTENTS OF MY SAMPLE and then put it right in my pooper with a completely wrong result… why am I liable?

If I ruined a super sack of material I’m liable… if my shipping company crashes a truck and ruins my load their liable… if the farmer grows a hot crop their liable…


Can we sue these people? Can we burn them down? Like where’s the justice? Get Batman on the line we got a cartel of idiot super villains that we pay thousands of dollars to tell us wrong info.

I don’t know what my point is here… but I guess welcome to the game, glad everyone is starting to see how retarded labs are now with the D8 nonsense. And ya my testing lab should go to prison years before I ever would if they tell me my product is clean and thc compliant.

Call your heads of agriculture department. Let them know? I don’t know… I need a freaking message and a drink at this point


I would suggest getting others with the same issue dealing with the same labs and get a lawyer to start or threaten a class action suit.


the major biproducts I’ve seen, granted I do exhaustive workups to remove reagents, are just cannabinoid isomers. Presumably non toxic, but I guess I dont know that for certain. Yall should just buy the standards yourself for these isomers and quantify them like the scholars you are.


I’m lobbying for more responsibility being levied on testing labs. Politicians love showcasing the tax revenues and jobs created from cannabis/hemp, but have no idea what they’ll face when illnesses and deaths are correctly attributed to invalid testing results, and by extension their regulatory framework.


Shoudnt that be the accredited labs job? not the processors? what do we pay them for? you think there are standards for all the isomers? there aren’t even standards for all the cannabinoids.


this is when i can hold my head high and say i only fuck with weed. LOL this is nuts. This is the biggest cannabis controversy of 2020. Can d8 exist with a ND d9? I love the cbd guys that wanna be in the game but not really “in the game”

good luck guys this is super interesting reading it all!


Labs cant possibly encorporate every standard into their method every time. its too expensive. the burden of quality is ultimately on the processor. if you dont have the chops to create internal standards and conduct some amount of analysis yourself you shouldnt be in the fine chemical business.


You should you be able to lean on the “experts” in the analytical lab since that is their “expertise.”

but instead how it currently works is we are the experts in the field and have to train and guide the people who are supposed to be the experts. its bassakwards


This D8/D9/D10 conversion has always felt sketchy to me, yet I continually see others producing it. Not just on the testing side, but the production side as well.

My questions about the analytical labs are: Do the testing labs know what to test for? Are they looking for impurities or giving you a percentage purity? How accurate is it? Do they explain the uncertainties in their testing? Are they simply lying all the time?

For the production side, if something changes (sometimes unknowingly) with a production process, what measures are production/quality control taking to catch/mitigate these discrepancies in the process. If there are too many uncontrollable variables that can lead to dangerous product, the process is flawed or shouldn’t be performed.

This is serious stuff. To me, it needs to be cGMP level of compliance. If analytical labs were to become more competent, the problems wouldn’t go away. Manufacturers will find out that they are making poor product and have to fix it. No one wants to reprocess their failing material or troubleshoot why it’s failing in the first place.


yeah, it does suck. In pharma you have your own in house quality department/analytical and dont have to rely on a 3rd party. The way they’re kept honest is that falsifying results in a GMP environment is enormously risky monetarily and in terms of consumer safety.

The state of the industry seems to be that companies cant be trusted to perform good in house quality control so they have to run through a third party lab that’s allegedly unbiased. Its a pain in the ass to exhaustively vet analytical labs, but once you find a good one they’re generally willing to add standards to their methods.

Back in the day we had a few labs add delta 8 to their standard library at our request, but now everyone tests for delta 8. The same can be done with these other isomers - I promise you there are plenty of fairly obscure standards between caymen, cerilliant and aldrich. Best you can do is hold their hands, get them under NDA and talk chemistry a little with them. Schedule appointments with their CSOs or managers or senior chemists etc. A bunch of these labs have made a living testing produce and tobacco and skin care products - they cant be expected to be experts at everything just like you and I. It takes time to find a good fit and form a good relationship. Having good in house analytics is important so that you can check their work, and so you can minimize the number of paid samples you submit. For instance, if you have your own GC then you test for residual solvents yourselves before submitting for a third party COA.

If you’re making truly novel cannabinoids, then you’ve gotta either purchase some pricey standards or run some columns and NMRs and create your own internal standards if they arent commercially available.


keep in mind, they’re the experts at analytical chemistry. But you likely know more about cannabinoid chemistry than they do. They can create analytical methods and calibration curves and own the expensive equipment so that you dont have to, but they probably know very little about cannabinoids and synthesis.

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Your awesome weed that is supposedly so pure is TAINTED AS FUCKKK. All the black market stuff we’ve smoked for a decade is riddle with pesticides toxins mold rot mycotoxins and oh soooo much more!! Even the legal weed market use the same labs cbd do… the same way they can’t accurately tell us if it’s .4 or .3 thc what makes anyone think they can tell us if it’s 100 Parts per BILLION or 10000 parts per BILLION??

The whole thing is fucked. It’s not enough to kill us and maybe even just puts hair on our chest and makes us stronger. But definitely wouldn’t argue that the weed side is any better. Same labs different problems same results. Us getting violated monetarily and statutorily


This entire statement leads me to believe you do not own or run a lab. Am I wrong?

BecAuse if a million dollar testing lab can’t do that… why would my small internal testing department be able to…?


Yes, D8 can exist without D9. I have seen 99%+ purity on COAs before and I know it is being actively produced by at least a few processors. D8 can be made correctly, if one has the dedication to doing it right. And @Siosis, just because you haven’t seen it or made it doesn’t mean that other people aren’t…


The 2 labs we use come from the pharmaceutical side doing double blind placebo studies and blood work analysis. I don’t know how to get more accredited then that. They are one of the 3 labs in the country with a schedule 1 license. They have every certification that can be had. And we’ve still had WILDLY in accurate shit from them.

Internal testing in the pharma world is wildly bias as well.

Yes internal testing is great to verify stuff. But when we are talking about the inability to test or verify certain compounds due to side confessions during a process or things like that, internal testing will never catch that or help that.

Internal testing is like the jr version of the lab so we do t have to send as many samples and can call them on bullshit. If they can’t figure it out with 10 times the equipment and expertise then internal testing is a mute point in this discussion


I didn’t say it wasn’t doable?

I’m not the smartest person in the room. And if I am I’m setting up my team and network all wrong.

Now that being said, some COAs that I’ve seen coming out of a lab that’s been operating for 6 months ran by a guy right out of college using a testing lab that’s been around for 6 months ALSO being run by a guy right out of college or never involved in cannabis in his life and they’re showing 98% D8 ND D9 that’s where I go… ya okay sure bud.

People are doing it. I’ve seen the COAs from places I semi believe.

But at this point I have freaking COA PTSD


Do NOT throw all BM growers under the bus!!!

You might as well say ALL cops are bad, all white people are bad or all black people are bad.

Its TALK like yours that have very detrimental issues twords those who take PRIDE in what they grow. INCLUDING ME and I’m sure most ppl on here.

Im.getting tired of all the damn FN preaching about how good L2L is when most L2L FAILS!. Get off your damn high horses!


yeah but no one has died or gotten sick from pure cannabis even with all the problem you posted. most of the weed smokers i know are some of the healthiest old people i know.


Sounds like @Siosis is a little but hurt with such a wild statement like that. Go back to your lab and get to processing some hemp. @Demontrich and I will continue to grow our fire and continue to move it to happy smokers such as @Killa12345


i will further add. Craft growers can monitor their grows easier and maintaining a small garden is much easier than a commericial one. Many problems found in commercial dont really exist on smaller scale grows.

none of the weed i buy come from a commercial atmosphere. Just some really good home growers that know what they are doing.