Very possible but extremely expensive and power hungry. I’d just buy more LN2 and vent.
Before the engineering problems, I’m curious whether or not if actually works… and if it does work, what are the necessary parameters to make it repeatable. From there, we can worry about the engineering and logistical challenges.
I’d be happy to test some samples and share results if we have an idea on parameters and SOP.
Great question. Important topic because of the advantages of the tek in terms of storage and production.
My experience with live dried, fresh cured, crop to cure, cryo cured and otherwise freeze dried flower is as follows:
-Amazing visual appeal. These are the frostiest looking, glittery little buds. Their shape and surface shimmer and super and they look great in the jar.
Due to the water weight loss, I wonder if people perceive that they are getting more in their 8th. I haven’t seen it extracted and am not sure the reason for extracts being dark. I wonder if the cell walls burst and more chlorophyl and pigments are readily present during extraction.
Further stoner question → What looks best under a microscope, a lb thats been placed in a styrofoam cooler and dunked in ln2 till -70c internally, then left on a bench to degass/thaw to room temp, or a lb that’s been placed in a small styrofoam cooler and placed in a cryogenic freezer at -60 till it was -60 internally, then removed from said freezer and left alone on a benchtop to thaw to room temp?
A lb directly dunked in ln2 like potatoes at a fry shack, or a lb directly placed in a -60 cryofreezer?
Graduating from cell lines to entire harvests is a personal and professional dream of mine. Definitely envious of the folks that get to play around with the shipping crate freeze dryer 
Great question. I’m not sure and I’d like to see for myself!
I would guess that dunking into ln2 would preserve best and damage little. Air is a terrible conductor and would slow down the cooling process. That is assuming that rapid cooling is desirable, and the more rapid the better(a big assumption).
I think that there is probably a sweet spot of cooling, lowest temperature reached, etc. Too low could be bad?
Well, I think below a certain temp it’s more about preserving for like, a life-time, and I don’t think people intend on storing their harvests for significant periods like those that would benefit from storing your grass at -70C. For micro, the lil’ guys, they just slow down, they don’t really stop, per-se, and it varies wildly of course, so the colder the better for folks like the ATCC. But that’s not commercial cannabis. Anything around -20-40f/c would be “good enough” as far as I can imagine, it’s really ultimately the rate of cooling thats most important.
The only real harm I’m aware of from cooling too rapidly would be not giving the individual cells time enough to push the extra water out as they shrink from the drop in temps, which shouldn’t be a concern once you’re already past/around the point of freezing. I’d think that a lb placed in a cheapo styrofoam cooler and taped up and submerged till the internal probe reads -60-70 would look a good bit better than a lb that was just dunked directly. Maybe next personal harvest I’ll rent a dewar of ln2 lol
You made me spit my coffee, J! That freeze dryer made my ears pop,.
If you climb in there while its running it will also make your blood boil…
baring excipients, is membrane damage (increased chlorophyll leakage) “inevitable”?
yeah. almost certainly. degree depends mostly on “how you freeze”.
which is different from where I was.
which was “don’t be silly, you just did it wrong”.
because:excipients…
edit: besides, who can resist paragraphs such as
5.1. Non-living scaffold materials
Macroporous biomaterials elaborated via freeze-drying of biopolymers have gained considerable attention in surgical procedures for their role as hemostats [95] and bone defect fillers [96]. An important number of these materials is nowadays commercially available and validated by different national and international drug agencies [97]. Also, hybrid formulations, that combine biopolymers and hydroxyapatite (and other inorganic moieties) have been freeze-dried to obtain macro-porous composite materials relevant in the context of bone replacement [[98], [99], [100], [101]]. Despite their satisfactory biocompatibility properties, little control over the porosity of the material i.e. pore size distribution, orientation, etc., was evidenced. The need for further textural control in freeze-dried biopolymers was realized by reports suggesting that the morphology of pores could be a determinant factor in tissue growth [102]. The integration of ice templating, formerly described for the fabrication of lightweight ceramics, in the elaboration of biomimetic materials [103] and biomaterials [27,104,105] opened a pathway to further increase the control over the texture of macro-porous biomaterials [25]. The aligned porosity enabled effective liquid transport properties [106] when compared to randomly oriented porosity developed by isotropic freezing [107,108]. These materials favor cell colonization [109] nutrients exchange, and, importantly, due to facilitated gas diffusion, they provide simple platforms to overcome the oxygen diffusion limitations that hinder extensive cell colonization in hydrogels. The list of ice-templated biopolymers used for 3D cell culture is vast, ranging from type I collagen [110] to gelatin [111,112] and numerous polysaccharides [113,114].
That is what I am talking about. Such pretty buds. Are you rolling it up? Do you find that it gets really powdery?
instant wooks, just add water…
I can’t shake the scene from Total Recall when you said that!
I can make @cyclopath 's blood boil at ambient temp/pressure:
*opens forum, first post:
“Hi, brand new user, here. I haven’t read anything but I wonder if anyone knows any way to use whip-it butane cans (I have CASES!!) in a 5lb closed loop I just bought off Craigslist? Is there an adapter?”
“The Templated Nugget, deposited layer by layer. Preserved Perfectly”
“Ice templating” is a new term, to google I go!
https://hal.science/hal-00933994/document
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1706.05875
Oh snap, for data - Use cell cultures of known “density” to measure the cell degrading effects of various freezing approaches, to save yourself from staring through a microscope and deriving a numerical value for “how fucked is this nug?” organoleptic evaluations @cyclopath
yeah, ran across that adapter earlier today (waiting at vet’s office).
my guy.
YOU’D LIKE THAT - WOULDN’T YOU?
Nah but let’s give it a shot and see what happens. I got enough to sacrifice a couple nugs
Thank you! Yeah I’m usually rolling it up in joints or blunts - i wouldn’t say powdery as much as it is squishy since my biggest issue with it is airflow restriction that can happen pretty easily
I’m just glad I’m not the only one wondering.
That’s a very nice freeze dryier
Is it diy ?
Looks to me like a reinforced steel container
That it has freezing power for the vessel
That there is no condensing of the sublimated water vapor
And that this is possible deu to the choice of vacuum pump
That the shelves used to place biomass on are infra red panels
That probably are programmed to go on and off at intervals
Am I right ? Very nice
Its a custom built freeze dryer but we did not build it ourselves, i just worked with a very intelligent guy that has been in the freeze drying industry his whole life, there is monitoring on each shelf and that triggers when the heat is activated and deactivated.
Process driven parameters are hot.