Ethanol Thread: Crumble, Budder, & Shatter

This was typed up as an explanation to someone so if it sounds odd I got lazy and didn’t want to retype it up for this post. I have quite a bit of experience with ethanol concentrates and I wanted to share it with the community and spark up some good ethanol discussion and tek sharing! If you have questions I’ll try and share more when I can.

This thread will serve as the communication for all things Budder that I have currently done and will be doing over the next few weeks to get a more stable understanding of this new concentrate and how it behaves.

So first, what is Budder? It is a different consistency of concentrate that can be found in two forms, one that is dry/crumbly/putty when manipulated and another that is wet/puty when manipulated. The difference between the two of these is basically post processing of the whipped material. After it has been whipped the Budder will cure and become dry and rigid. With a little manipulation, rolling and homogenizing in ones hands, you can cause the concentrate to be come wet and very sticky. After a few hours the wet consistency will become more stable again but still hold the wet look from before. The advantage of this concentrate is that the user can easily manipulate this with a tool and ball it up in their fingers to be easily placed into a vaporizing device.

How is it made/differ from Crumble? Once we have poured up shatter and purged off the ethanol below our required 5000 ppm limit the slab will be removed from parchment paper and transferred to a silicone whipping tray. Once in the tray we melt down the shatter till it is liquid throughout. When whipping Crumble we have our hot plate set for 80 C but with Budder the hot plate is set to 60 C. The difference here is to keep all those precious terps from boiling off during the whipping process. When whipping Crumble we target a very specific look for the concentrate before putting it in the oven at 100 F and purging under vac. This allows the concentrate to rise and become the crumble consistency we are used to seeing. When whipping Budder we will whip the concentrate a little further than the point we usually look for in Crumble as to make sure the concentrate is extremely homogeneous. Once the concentrate resembles a thick peanut butter consistency we take it off the hot plate and allow it to set up and harden. If we want to give it more of a wet texture/appearance then the concentrate can be further manipulated/homogenized by rolling it around in the extractors gloves to allow those terps to come back to the surface. This wet ball would then be allowed to set up for a few hours so that it stabilizes and is more easily placed into gram jars.

What is the difference in potency/terps for Shatter, Budder and Crumble? When ranking these concentrates in order of highest terp content to lowest it would make the most sense that Shatter would have the highest terp content followed by Budder and finally Crumble. This is due to the amount of post processing done to each concentrate. Since Shatter is very stable it locks in all the terps and in doesn’t often smell very much when its packaged. When vaporized shatter releases all these terps and can sometimes be a bit more harsh inhalation since terps are basically solvents. The next highest concentration of terps would be found in Budder. This is because it has been through a heating and whipping cycle that would cause some of the terps to evaporate. Since it doesn’t go into the vac oven for a final purge like Crumble it is thought that it will have a higher amount of terps trapped in the final concentrate than Crumble. This will also make Budder smell much more aromatic when packaged as opposed to Shatter and Crumble because unlike Shatter the terps are able to escape the concentrate and unlike Crumble they have not been purged off in post processing vac oven. As for the ranking of potency I would speculate that Crumble would be the most potent, followed by Budder, and finally Shatter. This is simply because as the amount of terps decrease the relative amount of THC content would increase. This trend has been confirmed between Shatter and Crumble potency analysis but will require further testing for Budder.


Ooh I have a question! Is everything you do winterized?


No sir! We extract at about -40 C and then run it through a Lenticular with charcoal to clean it up. @Apothecary36


Great post (super in depth post)

but since you said it for me, I’d offer that silicone is NOT the appropriate surface to whip a wet terpene filled extract. I’m fairly sure silicone doesn’t play kindly with several of the common terpenes in cannabis.


I got a sudden urge for something sugary the second I saw the pic in the end.

Edith: great write up, more etho game below 5000ppm!


So you’re saying that terps will break down the silicone? The main reason we whip in them is because with the technique we use to whip it can take up to 30 minutes to whip the budder to a consistency that we like. If we were to whip in a Pyrex I’m afraid that there could be chipping happening while the tool makes contact with the glass and that would end up in our concentrates. I work in a medical market and being that this is medicine I wouldn’t want glass in someone’s gram.


Thanks for this. I always get confused about how the 2 are made.

Budder whipped around with added terps sometimes as well right? Or they just whip the shatter at 140F, no terps, just whip it till it gets to budder. Also heating silicone???

Crumble, you essentially bake a little more, like a cake when its not done enough.

1 Like

Switch to ptfe lined container its the safest option


Would glass work well?

Like a big pyrex dish

1 Like

You can buy rolls of ptfe and line your pyrex


Yes I’ve heard terps break down silicone as its a solvent.

That’s what I learned from here


Thanks. I figured the silicone was inferior to pyrex, havent heard of ptfe though as I’m a square

1 Like

You can add back terps but we never add terps back to our concentrates. What we extract is what we play with. There are two heating temps for whipping Crumble and whipping Budder. 80 and 60 C respectively. The difference between the two, other than temp and vac purge, are the final consistencies you reach.

Silicone can handle very high temps. We purchase the ones that can handle high heat. But they never get over 80C which is about 176F I believe.


Thanks. Had a good idea of how it was made but not this in depth. May experiment whipping my own shatter I buy with added hemp terps.

If thats a good idea


I think we have some PTFE sheets lying around that I could cut up. How do you secure it to the Pyrex dish? When we whip the tray gets spun around numerous times.

Do you have issues with the PTFE tearing?

Why is silicone not considered safe?


I have posted in some of the crumble threads and given some tips on how to whip crumble before.

If you’re trying to whip your shatter into a very stable and dry crumble the added hemp terps might cause you to need to purge a little longer to get that dry crumbly texture.

If it’s budder you’re after the extra terps are your friends!! I would be curious to see this hemp terp shatter you speak of.


Don’t have equipment to make crumble, at home stuff and still learning. Mainly jus wanna make badder to fuck around with and see what happens dabbing wise. Crumble I don’t care to much about making until I have equipment and material to run/process.

1 Like

And yes I just want to see what will happen if I melt shatter and add hdt to it. Doesn’t hurt to fuck around and see what happens.

1 Like

Ahh yes okay I see what you’re saying now. Well in my opinion the more WET the budder the better, but some people at work disagree. They like the more dry consistency. The key is to keep whip whip whipping until your extract is homogenized. Follow the other instructions in the post for the wet stuff.

I suggest reaching out to @TwistedStill for all your whipping needs. He made me 2 circular whipping Stix and my life has been forever changed. They fit in any drill and work like a dream.


Thanks. I’ll use my dab tool for now, as I’m only gonna whip a gram.

1 Like