distillate to CBN??

It’s not so much the CBN that people are questioning, it’s that there’s only 17% of content accounted for leaving open the question of what the other 83% is.

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The Ballad of Willy the chemist…retold. slow cap

slow cap? Is that something like a dunce cap :joy::joy:

I find the % questionable. The isomerization, although in this case it would be a decomposition product, should still leave a higher % if you started with 75%. Unless your flask was filled with burned up carbon…

I still can’t get over not a single other analyte?

That seems more than questionable to me. If you have that jar, 17% is CBN… what the hell is the rest? I ntice the top is where the color is. I think that the rose color is the CBN. I would take a sample from the very bottom of the jar for a re-test. Realistically that is a pretty small run so chalk it up to learning.

Best of luck. I’m only on my 5th run. My first run, first pass… 96% total cannabinoids. Have yet to repeat that :crazy_face:

Also, all my distillate smells like the funk. I belive it’s phytols. Today I go in to take about the same amount of distillate, re-dissolve in EtOH and try to remediate odor. If it ain’t one thing…

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If the test is accurate, maybe the majority of the remainder is D10 THC? It wasn’t for and also a potential result of over-heating (from personal experience).

without the chromatogram, we’re just guessing.

with the chromatogram, we would at least be making informed guesses.

assuming Restek cannabinoid standards, the lab can only quantitate THC, CBD, and CBD. anything else is a “mystery peak”. Yes, there other standards available, but most state mandated testing does not require testing for other cannabinoids.

The lab got it wrong? Because they did not identify cannabinods that they cannot purchase standards for and are not required to test for? They looked for delta9, there wasn’t any left…how is that the labs fault?

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Nope. It actually shows mucho respect like an 80’s movie speech.

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I have been assured that our peaks aren’t d10, or any other cannabinoid that has a standard. The answer is out there in the literature. We’re waiting for HPLC-MS-MS data from a collaborator but they need to get machine time. So I’ll be expecting that never.

We know what to do: get a prep HPLC, run about a gram of material, ensure that each fraction is a unique compound, get MS data, UV-vis data and 1H and 13C NMR data. Once we know what they are, we can try to guess at a mechanism and see if the process is reversible. Here’s a chromatogram of a 2nd pass that tested around 50%. The mystery peaks at 4.208ish are my main concern for now. sample_00068588_chemstation_report_POTENCY.pdf (46.8 KB)

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you can also identify most cannabinoid peaks from the triple standard. Not always but SRI gioves pretty tight instructions.

Or you could do what @drjackhughes said :joy:

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I don’t think it’s the labs fault. I think it isn’t for the same reasons you just said. We need a method like MS to determine this. Unfortunately if you run GCMS the retention order is all different so it’s hard to make a 1:1 correspondence between the peaks even if you identify them all.

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Sorry, should have replied to the thread in general.

I do that on every run…what?:wink:

As to purifying the compounds, I was just talking about cannabinoids without standards, specifically the side products from improper SPD, specifically 1st pass reclaim with too much heat and crappy vacuum. I want to draw reaction mechanisms that I will never take the time to actually prove (unless someone wants to write their Master’s thesis on the topic…).

The triple standard works well (THC,CBD,CBN) and you can buy it from Emerald Scientific if you are not specifically an analytical lab.

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I’ve also gotten decent calibration by using store-bought CBD isolate.
(ok it was a free sample a vendor sent. I was desperate…)

3 injections at 6 concentrations. called it 98% pure.

then I transferred that calibration to all the cannabinoids I was willing to call
(THCV*, CBD, delta8, delta9, CBG, CBN).

would I use it for 3rd party results? hell no.
Does it get me in the right ball park? sure does.

challenged with various 3rd party tested concentrates and formulations I had lying around, the above calibration easily got me within 10% of the “right” number.

Edit: thanks @drjackhughes for Calibration Standards and Reference Standards for Cannabis Labs | Emerald Scientific

*I should have adjusted for the mass difference between THCV and THC, I did not.

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Great post. I’m also trying to figure out an efficient solution to degrade THC rapidly in conversion to CBN. Any insight would be very much appreciated, we’re out in California.

Bump
Is this thread dead? Seems like a great idea to convert THC in CBD Distillate to CBN. Wouldn’t the CBD also degrade to THC and then to CBN?

Anyone have a SOP to do this without using highly poisonous materials like Iodine?

DM me pls.

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I’d also like to hear any success stories/SOPs for purposely turning THC into CBN. A lab in a non-legal state/scenario is very concerned about having any THC around after a hemp CBD extraction, and wants to convert it immediately

CBN is so valuable that people are not willing to share this information. Unfortunately, you will have to figure it out own your own.

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Eh, even messing with iodine/UV etc, there is such a loss that keeping THC would still be more valuable than what little CBN is ultimately yielded if profit optimization is the goal, they just want the THC gone, and not being dumped down the drain or walking out the back door if possible.

Thc remediation is also very valeuble info so valeuble that those that know
Don t sell but toll :grin:
Several members here that deliver the service at the door
@qga for example

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Only option other would be dilute the hell out of the extract

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Profit optimization is a big motivator and for the individuals (was going to say “guys” but there are women present) wanting to corner the market on CBN, that won’t last long if at all once bigger producers enter that market such as COPE or Mile High or big pharma. Genetics will do it in a very short time anyway probably 1-2 seasons by the look of results from Monsanto so the Tech has limited shelf life

We simply want to get the THC out of our CBD Distillate. simple (except not so simple). Most everyone understands the costs and complexity of large scale Chromatography so finding an easier real world method to “remediate” THC seems a no brainer.

There are promising test results using both UV and Oxidation (Using an oxidizer or oxygen hence the oxi part.) or a catalyst such as Iodine or just as simple to use heat. I’m trying to avoid building a bomb ie bubbling pure oxygen through distillate. And i’m told there are commercial processes and hardware for sale to do the conversion so I’m asking those that have the Tech or know of the commercially available processes to speak up and point us that don’t have PHD’s in the right direction.

As with most everything like this the process is probably in some obscure patent done years ago or SOP but will come out in the end. I don’t see anyone filing so I figure its already been done.

But since this forum is based on the free exchange of ideas, theories, research and expertise one would think the answer is just a couple clicks away. IMHO

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