Danger of Terpenes?

This Study has demonstrated that terpenes will degrade into some nasty molecules (including benzene) at temperatures exceeding about 300C (below THC’s boiling point of 417C).

This is probably a great place to open a discussion. What are your thoughts on this research? Are there any ways to mitigate these factors?

-Phil

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Dab at lower temps

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If you’re not boiling the THC, what’s the point?

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Thc and thca boil well under 300c.

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The research paper’s got a source that says 417C—do you have a source to corroborate that information?

Edit: I ask because this is the most critical component of the discussion. If you vaporize at the BP of THCA, and that BP is below 300c, we might be alright

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When you add the carb cap, you create a vacuum, lowering the BP even further

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Ive always known it to be around these numbers https://www.steephill.com/science/cannabinoids
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nwsci.com/customer/docs/SKUDocs/RMR/Technical%2520Data_Extractions_03.28.18.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwji4MvKqq7kAhWEuZ4KHc-TAsYQFjADegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw2uDmAsOurPBIBfX2VMTGmd&cshid=1567296685029
Cannabinoid Profile: Tetrahydrocannabinolic Acid (THCa) - The Leaf Online

But then this

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Nope.

Huffing your meds is bad for you.

Very effective, easy to titrate dose, because of immediate effect, even enjoyable, but bad for you nevertheless

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Smoking weed too then?

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Let’s not be silly. It’s ALL bad for you. Eggs have benzene in them. What realistic amount of the right terps actually convert? And absolutely lower temps under vacuum. At some point you have to stop consuming anything. Answer: Lowest temps. I don’t think we can do anything else for people who want a clean plant extract. It will be what it is.

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I don’t think being critical of our industry and it’s nuances is silly.

It’s our responsibility as manufacturers to understand what we’re giving our consumers. This study found that the amount of benzene generated was 60,000 ppb (60ng/mg) the amount found in the air in the US is 0.616 ppb.

Benzene is a demonstrable carcinogen—it has undoubtedly lended itself to the existence of cancer.

If I can avoid consuming 100,000x the normal amount of a carcinogen…imma do it.

Edit: math is hard

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You are right and I’m not disagreeing, but that paper’s methods are not nearly good enough to extrapolate to human consumption. If you are talking about added terpenes sure, but natural ones are an unavoidable consequence of people who like complete extracts.

Sleeping with a significant other subjects you to the same amount of radiation as if you lived on the fence line of a nuclear power plant. You gonna divorce your significant other?

I am fine talking realistically about this, but we all know inhaling chemicals, any chemicals, is bad for you. The oxygen that is keeping you alive is slowly killing you.

Adding non Canna terps is the only relevant discussion possible in my opinion.

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@NoHeatNoVacuum you should really take in consideration what @TheGratefulPhil has said. In the refineries they have two gases that are consider the double death. One is H2S(egg smell at first). This is an acute death and the reason its mandatory to wear a ppm meter on by the collar. Once unconscious they have a few minutes to get respitated. Neurological problems will still be there. Two is benzene… The silent prolonged killer. (orderless) Those ppb are there for a reason and not ppm. These are the two main killers in oil plants. These incidents are commonly directed a different type of death but family compensation follows.

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There’s a reason the first hit off a bowl is always the best (=

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I’ve seen these numbers a lot and they’re the first ones to come up on google. But I think they all originated from a paper that showed those numbers but they were at a very deep vacuum.

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Boiling point of thc and cbd.
This data fits my experience.
If you are going over 200 C during your distillations you need better pumps.
For reference, the 1000 pressure on the plot is 75 microns of vacuum.
Boiling point of thc at that pressure is less than 100 C.
At atmospheric pressure the bp of thc is about 320C which is hot enough to crack a lot of organic compounds into nasties.
There is a lot to be learned about vape tech and how to minimize bad chemistry.
Ha anybody tried using a nebulizer to make an aerosol of EtOh and resin at room temp like an asthma inhaler?
That keeps the temperatures down.

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Avoiding Terps all together is the only completely safe option. Then keeping the temperature as low as possible. Heating and inhaling anything aromatic is going to give exactly the same results, but I’m not going to start smoking weed with no smell or flavor.

And then you have all the cannabinoids formed by incorporating terpenes…

This is one of the most interesting topics in my opinion. If I can find someone with a TGA that passes into a GCMS, I would gladly pay for samples to be run.

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Yes, but there’s more variables here. If smoking cannabis and its Terpenes caused cancer we would know it by now. However, it would seem that smoking cannabis flower doesn’t increase rates of cancer based on the last 60 or so years of people smoking it in conjunction with us paying attention to cancer.

Concentrated terpenes may certainly prove to have a different end result…

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I’ve warned people with asthma about smoking high terpene extracts in the past, and am often met with disdain and anger. That is until they start having severe asthma attacks after smoking sauces and similar products.

The concentration of terpenes we consume today is far greater than you will consume in natural ratios in cannabis flower. Doing analysis on extracts myself I have seen how incredibly high the concentrations can be.

No one wants to come to terms with the fact that terpenes are solvents, hydrocarbons as well. But I’ve seen many folks need anywhere from 2-3 doses of albuterol after smoking HTE products, which mind you is an unhealthy dose of albuterol.

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I never really thought about the why’s of it, but i have asthma, and prefer consuming isolate with little to no sauce. I can even start at a little higher temperature. This preference is 100% based off of noticing I rarely need albuteral to offset getting stoned

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